Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA05521 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:11:37 GMT Message-ID: <3A71931D.A32772CD@bioinf.man.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:09:17 +0000 From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk> Organization: University of Manchester X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en-gb] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Memes and emotions References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C0D@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Sorry about that - I'll go for the deluxe version...
Me:
I don't think it (the 'maze solver meme') has to have been culturally transmitted to
be transmissable - if one rat followed another (for whatever reason) and happened to
be shown the maze solution, the meme would have jumped without any need for volition
or culture. And
anyway, why is transmission a vital part of meme definition? What do we call the idea
that the rat has of itself solving a maze? Or do we just have to call that some sort
of autonomic learning?
Thee:
Simple, because memetics is an evolutionary model of information
transmission. In other words the subject of study is the process by which
cultural information is passed between people.
Me again:
Yes I know but what if I have an idea that is transmissable, which I never transmit,
but which in every other respect is a meme (i.e. an informational unit in some
sense)? Genetics is the study of inheritance and evolutionary change in alleles and
their frequencies, but they have a concept of a gene which does not rely on
transmission. Memes do not just exist in transmission, they are in your head. So my
point (before I waffle on too much) was that 'potentially transmissable' should be
enough.
[The point being that the rat could contain what I would be happy to call a meme,
without ever passing it on; although it's basically untestable whether the rat has an
idea of itself solving the maze (the meme version), or has simply learned a seies of
responses to a string of stimuli (i.e. the correct behaviour at each turn)].
Chris.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk)
http://bioinf.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris
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