Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA03102 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:52:33 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: the conscious universe Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 07:49:53 -0700 Message-ID: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJEEFAFIAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20001007103535.A501@reborntechnology.co.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I don't mean to imply anything subjective with my use of the word "mental."
The mind is a real, actual part of a human being (in my mind anyway).
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.liontales.com
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
Robin Faichney
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 2:36 AM
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: the conscious universe
On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 07:08:48AM -0700, Richard Brodie wrote:
> ... the meme per its Dawkins/Dennett/Brodie
> definition, as mental information...
While not necessarily wanting to open this argument up again, I have,
as usual, to point out that "mental information" implies a subjective
phenomenon, while Dawkins and Dennett view memes as objective, neural
information patterns. Also, in Consciousness Explained, Dennett makes
it quite clear that he sees neural and behavioural encoding (though he
doesn't use that word) as different phases in the meme's lifecycle.
(Don't have the detailed citation to hand, but will get it if anyone
requires it.)
I think few would seriously suggest that artifacts are memes, but
artifactual encoding of memes is another matter, and can be considered
a subset of behavioural encoding.
My view underwent something of a shift a few months back, whereby I
now see the subjective aspect of the meme -- concepts and so forth --
as being as real and as important as the objective aspect -- neurally
and behaviourally encoded information patterns. But I don't believe
Dennett, for one, would view it that way. He's solidly objectivist
(though obviously not Objectivist).
-- Robin Faichney=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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