Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA03996 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 8 Oct 2000 02:31:19 +0100 Message-Id: <200010080128.VAA13949@mail4.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:33:25 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: the conscious universe In-reply-to: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJEEFAFIAA.richard@brodietech.com> References: <20001007103535.A501@reborntechnology.co.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: the conscious universe
Date sent: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 07:49:53 -0700
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> I don't mean to imply anything subjective with my use of the word "mental."
> The mind is a real, actual part of a human being (in my mind anyway).
>
> Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.liontales.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> Robin Faichney
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 2:36 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: the conscious universe
>
> On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 07:08:48AM -0700, Richard Brodie wrote:
> > ... the meme per its Dawkins/Dennett/Brodie
> > definition, as mental information...
>
> While not necessarily wanting to open this argument up again, I have,
> as usual, to point out that "mental information" implies a subjective
> phenomenon, while Dawkins and Dennett view memes as objective, neural
> information patterns. Also, in Consciousness Explained, Dennett makes
> it quite clear that he sees neural and behavioural encoding (though he
> doesn't use that word) as different phases in the meme's lifecycle.
> (Don't have the detailed citation to hand, but will get it if anyone
> requires it.)
>
> I think few would seriously suggest that artifacts are memes, but
> artifactual encoding of memes is another matter, and can be considered
> a subset of behavioural encoding.
>
> My view underwent something of a shift a few months back, whereby I
> now see the subjective aspect of the meme -- concepts and so forth --
> as being as real and as important as the objective aspect -- neurally
> and behaviourally encoded information patterns. But I don't believe
> Dennett, for one, would view it that way. He's solidly objectivist
> (though obviously not Objectivist).
>
And which subjects would their own minds be subjective to -
objectively, that is? ;~)
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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