From: Bruce Howlett (brucehowlett@northnet.com.au)
Date: Sun 09 Mar 2003 - 20:50:01 GMT
Hi Bryan.
I am not arguing against your ideology. If it were possible to "use memetic engineering for peaceful means" I would be all for it. And if you are successful in starting a movement that achieves that objective, well and good. At some point your group's culture will generate group specific memes These may be related to the "peace" ideal, but they will more likely be related to the groups functionality and internal politics. None of them will have been created "intentionally", and you will not have the ability to control them. This is the nature of the meme.
Regards,
Bruce Howlett
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Thompson
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Memes For Peace
I agree that memes have been engineered by advertising and governments.
what I am proposing is that we use memetic engineering for peaceful means to
stop war and save lives. I think that this is a much more noble cause than
selling underwear or cola.
*Peace*
Bryan Thompson
Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003
Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects
http://www.peterjthompson.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Bradley" <jeremyb@nor.com.au>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Memes For Peace
> At 09:53 PM 9/03/03 +1100, Bruce wrote:
> Snip......................
> While I tend to agree with Joe on the humanitarian aspect of the Iraq
> situation, there are other issues implicit in the wording of Bryan's post
> which cause concern. The least not being the concept of "memetic
> engineering", which I think is an oxymoron. Even the opposing forces
> within the memetics definition debate agree that a meme is a cultural
unit.
> Is not culture the conglomerate of inherited ideas, beliefs, values and
> knowledge? Have not all attempts to overtly "engineer" culture failed?
>
>
> Jeremy's reply:
> I don't think so Bruce, hasn't Hollywood been active in the production of
> memes which reach out across the globe? Is this not memetic engineering?
> When I was living with an Indigenous Australian group which had not had a
> lot of outside contact, the change in children's behaviour was observable
> when they got a VCR and started watching USAnian crap.
> For me, memetic engineering is akin to propaganda, but it operates at a
> more subtle level.
> If we look at the Nazi regime's manipulation of art and theatre, we can
see
> this effect, and, dare I say, it is observable in poor Joe's foaming at
the
> mouth replies to any critique of his beloved USAnia's war on Islam.
> Making war to create peace is an oxymoron and can never work. War,
> especially such a one sided war, will perpetuate violence and only profit
> arms dealers.
> Sorry to be lurking for so long all. And Joe, don't worry, I am far too
> busy to reply too much at the moment as I am running an election campaign.
> But, to quote a great USanian memetic construct, I'll be back.
> Jeremy the do-gooder
>
>
>
> Jeremy Bradley - The Greens' Candidate in Oxley
> 3200 Oxley Hwy Wauchope 2446
> Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
> Mobile: 0428 856134
> E-mail: jeremyb@nor.com.au
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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