Re: Memes For Peace-at-any-Price

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 09 Mar 2003 - 20:50:44 GMT

  • Next message: joedees@bellsouth.net: "Re: Memes For Peace-at-any-Price"

    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Jeremy.
    >
    > Your perception of memes having internationality or being able to be
    > deliberately constructed to achieve an intended result seems to be an
    > accepted view on the list at the moment. I was trying to raise some
    > awareness of the meme's functionality, or in this case, lack of
    > functionality. As a management consultant, most of what I do involves
    > overt manipulation of organisations. That usually means doing a lot of
    > hard work on the areas of training, recruitment, systems, structures
    > and language. If it were possible to inject a meme into an
    > organisation that would fix all the problems then I would be
    > delighted. The reality is that memes do not work this way. What you
    > experienced with the aboriginal group was a memetic event caused by
    > the rapid introduction of a foreign culture. The memes carried in the
    > movies were a result of the culture that made the movies, not
    > intentionally planted to corrupt aboriginal kids.
    >
    He also fails to mention that Hollywood is split on the issue, with many celebrities on both sides.
    >
    > Good luck with the election.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Bruce Howlett
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Jeremy Bradley
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:21 AM
    > Subject: Re: Memes For Peace
    >
    > At 09:53 PM 9/03/03 +1100, Bruce wrote:
    > Snip......................
    > While I tend to agree with Joe on the humanitarian aspect of the Iraq
    > situation, there are other issues implicit in the wording of Bryan's
    > post which cause concern. The least not being the concept of "memetic
    > engineering", which I think is an oxymoron. Even the opposing forces
    > within the memetics definition debate agree that a meme is a cultural
    > unit. Is not culture the conglomerate of inherited ideas, beliefs,
    > values and knowledge? Have not all attempts to overtly "engineer"
    > culture failed?
    >
    >
    > Jeremy's reply:
    > I don't think so Bruce, hasn't Hollywood been active in the production
    > of memes which reach out across the globe? Is this not memetic
    > engineering? When I was living with an Indigenous Australian group
    > which had not had a lot of outside contact, the change in children's
    > behaviour was observable when they got a VCR and started watching
    > USAnian crap. For me, memetic engineering is akin to propaganda, but
    > it operates at a more subtle level. If we look at the Nazi regime's
    > manipulation of art and theatre, we can see this effect, and, dare I
    > say, it is observable in poor Joe's foaming at the mouth replies to
    > any critique of his beloved USAnia's war on Islam. Making war to
    > create peace is an oxymoron and can never work. War, especially such a
    > one sided war, will perpetuate violence and only profit arms dealers.
    > Sorry to be lurking for so long all. And Joe, don't worry, I am far
    > too busy to reply too much at the moment as I am running an election
    > campaign. But, to quote a great USanian memetic construct, I'll be
    > back. Jeremy the do-gooder
    >
    >
    >
    > Jeremy Bradley - The Greens' Candidate in Oxley
    > 3200 Oxley Hwy Wauchope 2446
    > Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
    > Mobile: 0428 856134
    > E-mail: jeremyb@nor.com.au
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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