From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sun 09 Mar 2003 - 20:49:06 GMT
> where did you get your statistics?
From the most recent CNN/Usa Today poll.
> The Sunnis and shi'tes are not
> begging us to come over and a war would just disrupt the region and
> cause more destabilization in the region and breed a new generation of
> terrorists.
>
But they ARE begging us to come over; check out:
>
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/templ/display.cfm?id=247&Sub=336
>
http://www.womenforiraq.org/
>
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=2C9377B7-9B22-40DA-
961F96A1F787D7D0
>
http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-2-88-983.jsp
>
http://www.krg.org/docs/articles/rosset-help-feb03.asp
>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-
dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A27343-
2003Feb18¬Found=true
>
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0226/p11s02-coop.html
>
http://www.labour.org.uk/tbspeechiraqiletters/
>
And there are many more.
>
It is actually seen by many analysts as leading to the long-term
democratization of first Iraq, then the region. Check out:
>
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/templ/display.cfm?id=253&dis=2
>
The terrorists breed and multiply in conditions where they perceive that
their enemy is a weak victim; Bin Laden claimed on his recruitment
video that the US was a 'paper tiger', easier to vanquish than the Soviet
Union, that could not sustain casualties, and pointed to Somalia as an
example.
>
> The war would not be quick. the pentagon has said the
> war could easily take years and many experts say that this could be
> another Vietnam.
>
Name those experts. We will have to stay there for a while to oversee
the transition to democracy (as we did in Japan and Germany), but the
war will be over quickly - just like the first one, which was also
erroneously claimed to be a Vietnam by those who hope to shake that
memory as some sort of voodoo talisman to frighten everyone away,
even where it manifestly does not apply,.
>
> the gulf war was relatively quick because we had 17
> allies and were just pushing saddam out of Kuwait. this would be us
> with maybe 3 allies invading Iraq and changing an entire government.
> they are not the same.
>
No, they're not; we have more than 300,000 troops in the area (as
opposed to 500,000), all of whom are the kind we can count on, will
come in from multiple directions (as opposed to only one), and are
facing a weaker military with a greatly improved ordnance accuracy and
a new MOAB bomb to wipe out major troop concerntrations or terrify
them into surrendering.. This one will be even easier.
>
> *Peace*
>
Liberty.
>
> Bryan Thompson
> Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003
> Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects
> http://www.peterjthompson.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 12:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Memes For Peace-at-the-price-of-murder, torture,
> oppression and slavery
>
>
> > > the warmongers are constantly talking about how supposedly, we
> > > need war to make peace. what an oxymoronic neo-conservative media
> > > spinning crock of bullshit. the iraqi war would only kill
> > > thousands of U.S. troops, tens of thousands of iraqi's and cost
> > > the country hundreds of billions of dollars. I'm not sure if you
> > > live in america but we are very aware of the costs of the war.
> > > the majority of american people are opposed to the war but bush
> > > (who also did not win with a majority of the votes) continues to
> > > bang the war drum. your response disgusts me!
> > >
> > Actually, 59% of US citizens support the US policy, and 84% believe
> > that Saddam is indeed flummoxing the inspectors. Let the Kurds,
> > Shiites and Sunnis of Iraq choose; they are BEGGING us to liberate
> > them! They have already lost a million people to that mustachioed
> > madman in the past two decades and eight million have fled into
> > exile and refugeehood. They would vastly prefer to lose thousands
> > of citizens to unintentional death in a quick liberation on the
> > other side of which lies freedom, democracy and human rights, than
> > to have another million brutally butchered by Saddam over the next
> > twenty years. As far as the cost; war does cost, but 9/11 cost more
> > than 100 billion. We must not allow that to happen again with
> > smuggled-in WMD's. When the Iraqis dance in the strrets of Baghdad
> > like they did in the streets of Kabul, and the freed grateful
> > citizens point out the locations of the hidden chemo and bio weapons
> > and the mass graves, when the 38 billion buck Saddamic oil deal with
> > France is shredded by regime change (yes, it IS all about oil - for
> > France!), and the filing cabinets reveal the horrid extent to which
> > German and French companies re- armed saddam through the sanctions
> > with chemical precursors and incubation media and rocket engines,
> > will the nay-sayers eat the crow they should have eaten after
> > Afghanistan, and Kosovo, and Bosnia (all of which also protected and
> > liberated Muslims)? NAAH. They lack the honesty and integrity to
> > do so.
> > >
> > > *Peace*
> > > Bryan Thompson
> > > Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003
> > > Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects
> > > http://www.peterjthompson.net
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 12:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Memes For Peace-at-the-price-of-murder, torture,
> > > oppression and slavery
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Hi everyone. I have started a new group dedicated to use
> > > > > Memetic
> > > > > Engineering to spread peace and stop an imminent war on Iraq.
> > > > > It's address is at
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memesforpeace/
> > > > > We may also discuss politics, Sociology and Psychology,
> > > > > Neuro-linguistic programming, culture jamming and any other
> > > > > topic that interests you. We will also discuss how memes
> > > > > affect the news media and how people in power and the media
> > > > > use memes and other concepts to portray an event. If any of
> > > > > these things interest you, please check it out! Thank you.
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memesforpeace/
> > > > >
> > > > > *Peace*
> > > > > Bryan Thompson
> > > > >
> > > > I'm shure, dewde, that the enslaved, oppressed, tortured and
> > > > mass murdered Shias, Sunnis and Kurds of Iraq, as well as the
> > > > families of those suicide-bombed disco-dancing Israeli teenagers
> > > > the killers of whose families saddam so liberally compensates
> > > > 925k per shaheed), will submit your hallowed name for a Nobel
> > > > Peace-at-any-Price prize, if not for demonic, diabolic and/or
> > > > appeasatory sainthood (voice dripping with sarcasm like
> > > > treacle). Just turn your face away and harden your bleeding
> > > > heart. To Hell with them all, right? Let 'em eat sand, toxins,
> > > > semtex and germs! Feel proud of your small-minded,
> > > > narcissistic, self-absorbed, egocentric, hypocritcal, uncaring
> > > > and Saddamite-ass-kissing self, hokay? No one else possessing a
> > > > shred of reason or decency should.
> > > > >
> > > > > Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003
> > > > > Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects
> > > > > http://www.peterjthompson.net
> > > > >
> > > > > ==============================================================
> > > > > = This was distributed via the memetics list associated with
> > > > > the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > > > Transmission For information about the journal and the list
> > > > > (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > > Transmission For information about the journal and the list
> > > > (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> > > Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
> > > unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > =============================================================== This
> > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
> > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
> > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
> > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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