Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA00499 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 12 May 2000 17:44:58 +0100 Message-ID: <391BEF63.13CB113F@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:47:47 +0100 From: Chuck Palson <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Useless memes References: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C3688D0@NWTH-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Bruce Jones wrote:
> IMHO sayings such as "Which came first ... ", "Best laid plans ..", "Don't
> throw out the baby with the bath water.", etc. catch on because they convey
> complex meanings with the fewest number of words.
>
> In the chicken/egg scenario: the general meaning of cause and effect about a
> given subject can be summed up rather quickly without a thesis.
>
> SO sayings that convey major philosophical or functional objectives catch
> hold and become part of the everyday lexicon. These types of sayings do fit
> into a definition of memes. I feel they are functional and are self
> serving.
I agree with this. I think sometimes its easier to take the literal meaning of
something and assume that it is therefore stupid. This is a general mistake - as
in when Dawkins and others "prove" that religion is false - without taking into
account the entire effect of that meme.
I should add that the chicken and egg connundrum poses a problem that can't be
solved in literal terms. It must be seen in an evolutionary context - which is
not something the brain has been predisposed to do. It is obvious that the egg
could never come first under current conditions where the differentiation has
taken place between egg and chicken. Evolutionary scientists have to figure out
the early conditions that eventually led to the chicken/egg mode of
reproduction. So the phrase plays on the relative inability of the brain to
understand evolution. No great harm done, though, because everyone knows what
the phrase means in metaphorical terms.
>
> Bruce
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wade T.Smith [SMTP:wade_smith@harvard.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:41 AM
> > To: memetics list
> > Subject: Useless memes
> >
> > On 05/12/00 08:02, Vincent Campbell said this-
> >
> > >Mine answer to the question itself would be that eggs came first, because
> > >eggs appeared before chickens evolved. Why it persists? Well I don't
> > know-
> > >another useless meme?
> >
> > Well, of course the egg came first, because, and here's the rub, chickens
> > use sexual reproduction- therefore the chicken is never the same as the
> > egg.
> >
> > Which brings us to why the conundrum remains a conundrum- it's all about
> > sex, the first hinge of all meaning.
> >
> > - Wade
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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