Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA02749 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 13 May 2000 00:48:43 +0100 Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:46:46 -0400 From: Robert Logan <logan@physics.utoronto.ca> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Useless memes In-Reply-To: <391BEF63.13CB113F@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10005121933180.9489380-100000@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Chuck Palson wrote:
>
> I agree with this. I think sometimes its easier to take the literal
> meaning of something and assume that it is therefore stupid. This is a
> general mistake - as in when Dawkins and others "prove" that religion
> is false - without taking into account the entire effect of that meme.
The claim that anyone can prove religion is false is itself false. The
problem with Dawkins proof is that his fallacy is wrong. :-)
Religions are not true or false in the sense of logic - they are belief
systems. They are based on axioms which can not be true or false. An
assumption is an assumption is an assumption which is neither true or
false. If one postulates the existence of a God on the basis of faith then
that God exists in that persons belief system and effects their behaviour.
I have already shared with this list my non-probativity theorem in which I
claim science can not prove anything. It goes as follows:
The Science Non-Probativity Theorem
Axiom: A proposition must be falsifiable to be a scientific proposition or
part of a scientific theory.
Axiom: A proposition can not be proven true and be falsifiable at the same
time. [Once proven true, a proposition can not be falsified and, hence, is
not falsifiable.]
Theorem: A proposition can not be proven to be true by use of science or
the scientific method.
Proof: If a proposition were to be proven to be true by the methods of
science it would no longer be falsifiable. If it is no longer falsifiable
because it has been proven true it can not be considered as a scientific
proposition and hence could not have been proven true by science. Q.E.D.
In the spirit of the Science Non-Probativity Theorem, we can not be
certain that this line of reasoning is absolutely valid or true. After all
we have just used the theorem, a syntactical element of the language of
mathematics to establish a proposition about the language of science. Our
theorem is not scientifically valid but as a result of mathematical
reasoning we have created a useful probe; one that can lead to some
interesting reflections and insights into the nature and limitation of
science. If it helps scientists and the public, who tend to accept the
authority of science more or less uncritically, to adopt a more humble and
modest understanding of science, it will have served its purpose.
All that science can do is to follow its tried and true method of
observing, experimenting, generalizing, hypothesizing and then testing its
hypotheses. The most that a scientist can do is to claim that for every
experiment or test performed so far, the hypothesis that has been
formulated explains all the observations made to date. Scientific truth is
always equivocal and dependent on the outcome of future observations,
discoveries and experiments. It is never absolute.
A scientist who claims to have proven anything is being dogmatic. Every
human being, even a scientist, has a right to their beliefs and dogmas.
But it does not behoove a person who claims to be a rational scientist and
who claims that science is objective and universal to be so absolute in
their beliefs and in the value of their belief system, science.
If you would like the entire paper email me and I will send it to you.
Bob Logan
****************************************************************************
* Robert K. Logan - Assoc. Prof. of Physics - University of Toronto *
* 60 St. George Street - Toronto, Ontario, M5S 1A7 - Canada *
* e-mail: logan@physics.utoronto.ca *
* phone: (416)978-8632 or 652-2570 or 927-9200 fax: (416)927-7077 *
* Author of: The Fifth Language: Learning a Living in the Computer Age *
****************************************************************************
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