Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA05066 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:52:13 GMT From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: new line: what's the point? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:29:46 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <ECS10003011147A@imap.uea.ac.uk> Message-Id: <00030218461500.00761@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Wed, 01 Mar 2000, Soc Microlab 2 wrote:
>This still leaves the question of what *level* memetics becomes a useful
>application, and I say, (after Dennett) that it is at the level of meaning rather than below that. (see "who's
>afraid of reductionism?" in DDI for more on this).
I think maybe uncertainty about "meaning" and "intentionality" is causing a
problem here. Many take both of these terms to imply subjectivity, which I
don't think Dennett does. My main concern is to say that memetics need, and
should, have no subjective element. That's my main beef with Joe, too.
However, with subjectivity eliminated, I'm no longer sure what "the level of
meaning" means. But how about this: one meme, in two different brains, is
identified as such not by its encoding in any mind or brain "language" (ie
syntactically), but by its effects on behaviour: these individuals behave in a
relevantly similar fashion.
BTW, on looking at Consciousness Explained for the first time in ages -- years,
in fact -- I realised that Dennett and I share what I thought was my own idea:
that memes are to be found in *both* brains and behaviour. He even uses
the same metaphor, saying that the meme in the brain is in a sort of pupal
stage. The disappointment in realising I'm not the originator of this is nicely
balanced by my pleasure at being in such distinguished company. :-)
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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