Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA04783 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:18:17 GMT From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: new line: what's the point? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:00:18 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200003012008.PAA10524@mail3.lig.bellsouth.net> Message-Id: <00030216110501.03748@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Wed, 01 Mar 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2000, Soc Microlab 2 wrote:
>> >robin said:
>> >
>> >My point is this: given all the existing concepts, such as meaning, and the whole semiotic toolbag, what
>> >purpose does the meme concept serve? What place is there for a "selfish" replicator in a world of
>> >consciously communicating individual minds? I thought memetics was an alternative scenario.
>> >Otherwise,why bother with memes at all?
>> >
>Memetics and semiotics, as I noted before, are complementary in
>the sense that semiotics is synchronic, describing the static and
>fixed signifier-signifying-signified-code-carrier-message system, like
>a sharp snapshot, while memetics is diachronic, describing the
>evolution, transmission/reception/replication and mutation of the
>messages contained in such encoded messages, like a
>(somewhat) blurry movie. Obviously, this being my position, your
>charge of neochristian fundamentalism is absurd (BTW, I'm pagan
>in outlook due to their ecological and feminist leanings, but not
>fundie about it).
I didn't say you were a "neochristian fundamentalist" (whatever that is), I
said you take the same line on memetics that creationists take on genetics.
Actually, that's not true, because they invoke a deus ex machina to "explain"
the origin, or design, of genes, whereas you invoke a deus in machina to
"explain" the selection of memes. But your tactic is about as scientific as
their's. Or else, answer this: do you or don't you deny the possibility of
mechanistic memetic explanations?
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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