Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA19819 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:55:36 +0100 Message-ID: <005901c0c1de$6e89d0c0$5eaefea9@rcn.com> From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <013f01c0bd6b$21682e80$5eaefea9@rcn.com>; <3AD133AA.6664.BBCD42@localhost> <00ca01c0c113$29cfd680$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010409183947.A685@reborntechnology.co.uk> <003001c0c120$2cb138a0$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010410091320.A553@reborntechnology.co.uk> Subject: Re: Determinism Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:51:04 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: Determinism
> On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 02:09:09PM -0400, Aaron Agassi wrote:
> >
> > > > > Which is quite strange, considering that objectivity is
unattainable;
> > > > > the best we can do is intersubjective agreement.
> > > >
> > > > Never the less, we still seek to improve our knowledge of truth
> > > > (correspondence to reality). And besides subjectivity, there is also
> > > > relativity. And the question remains whether subjective freedom is
> > illusory
> > > > or simply relative to the subjective frame of reference, thus as
> > objectively
> > > > real as superdeterminism, globally.
> > >
> > > What does "relative to the subjective frame of reference" mean?
> > >
> > The subjective frame of reference in which freedom obtains, and choices
must
> > be made in imperfect knowledge, in no way contradicts with the global
view
> > that must be superdeterministic.
>
> OK. I was just checking. I'm not sure superdeterminism is necessary, but
> I'm in broad agreement with this.
>
> > Freedom is subjective, not illusory.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > A frame of reference is a point of view from a particular position in
space
> > time, or other particular situation.
>
> My quibble, which is quite slight, I suppose, is that "subjective" already
> implies "frame of reference", so I see your formulation as redundant.
> I'd say something like "subjective but non-illusory freedom in no way
> conflicts with objective determinism".
>
Well, such Point of View or subjectivity that may well be illusory or
misleading, I might not want to compare to Einsteinian frame of refference.
> --
> Robin Faichney
> Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
>
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