Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA18246 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:05:00 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:13:20 +0100 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Determinism Message-ID: <20010410091320.A553@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <013f01c0bd6b$21682e80$5eaefea9@rcn.com>; <3AD133AA.6664.BBCD42@localhost> <00ca01c0c113$29cfd680$5eaefea9@rcn.com> <20010409183947.A685@reborntechnology.co.uk> <003001c0c120$2cb138a0$5eaefea9@rcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <003001c0c120$2cb138a0$5eaefea9@rcn.com>; from agassi@erols.com on Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 02:09:09PM -0400 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 02:09:09PM -0400, Aaron Agassi wrote:
>
> > > > Which is quite strange, considering that objectivity is unattainable;
> > > > the best we can do is intersubjective agreement.
> > >
> > > Never the less, we still seek to improve our knowledge of truth
> > > (correspondence to reality). And besides subjectivity, there is also
> > > relativity. And the question remains whether subjective freedom is
> illusory
> > > or simply relative to the subjective frame of reference, thus as
> objectively
> > > real as superdeterminism, globally.
> >
> > What does "relative to the subjective frame of reference" mean?
> >
> The subjective frame of reference in which freedom obtains, and choices must
> be made in imperfect knowledge, in no way contradicts with the global view
> that must be superdeterministic.
OK. I was just checking. I'm not sure superdeterminism is necessary, but
I'm in broad agreement with this.
> Freedom is subjective, not illusory.
Agreed.
> A frame of reference is a point of view from a particular position in space
> time, or other particular situation.
My quibble, which is quite slight, I suppose, is that "subjective" already
implies "frame of reference", so I see your formulation as redundant.
I'd say something like "subjective but non-illusory freedom in no way
conflicts with objective determinism".
-- Robin Faichney Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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