Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA01428 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:14:08 +0100 Message-ID: <002101c0bd40$443d5280$820abed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <E14j0vU-000GsE-00@gaea> <002901c0bbb0$f2000660$b902bed4@default><3AC8E1B1.33BCD878@clara.co.uk> <001101c0bc77$1fa65b20$0307bed4@default> <3ACA3B58.F9D77350@clara.co.uk> Subject: Re: taboos Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:48:12 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi Douglas,
You wrote,
I'm interested in how public myths survive in societies even when
> they are contradicted by empirical evidence. An example - the American
> self-myth about themselves as the most democratic nation in the world -
but
> there is evidence to suggest they aren't a democracy at all, at least in
the way
> they see themselves. Outsiders can see a society's contradictions, which
those
> within a society cannot.
<< You 'll be interested to know I just posted a mail to the list
considering
just an example.
In addition, I think, a starting point for your search has to be the history
of the country or nation you are willing to examine.
Even here, in Belgium, when myths are contradicted by emperical evidence
we don 't believe it. Even more, those who try to come up with evidence are
blacked. For an example, look for the evidence in the famous X1 -case,
where policeman were almost convicted for dealing with a victim/ witness
in the realm of the Dutroux- case.
Even though, you describe yourselves as hyper-individualists, are you so
when
> compared to North Americans, or would you just like to think you are?
<< No, I think we are hyper- individualists in a certain way.
IMO, the evidence for that can be found in the numbers of racists ( Belgium
is the second most racist country in Europe), in the numbers of suicides
( Belgium is compared to its population the first country in Europe where
people between the age of 13/ 14 - and 25 commits suicide) and the
evidence can also be found in the number of traffic accidents and people
whom died in car crashes. Also here,Belgium scores high... jumping red
lights is a hobby, speed limits are almost the for the full 100% ignored....
IMO, all these examples are due to a certain individualistic way of living,
and like I said in the post to Vincent, all due to our history.
But there is a difference between the Flemish side and the French speaking
side. IMO, the why for that difference has to be found in the way of
living,
Flemish people are known to work harder than those in the South of the
country. Flemish people, like you mantion in your post, lack a national
identity, but that can be said of those in the South too.
Something ' Belgium ', what expresses our identity, I do not know any-
thing. All what can be regarded as ' Belgium ' gets trown out.
Examples, singers like Adamo and Jhonny Halliday don 't get succes here,
Priorgine, gets the Nobel prize, but is totally unknown here, Adolphe Sax
famous builder of musical instruments, long forgotten and buried... they
just mentioned his 100 year birthday as Bill Clinton paid tribute to the man
blowing his horn at a party....
And the most famous of all, King Charles V, we dispise the fellow....
> I'd like to read a good Belgian political history from about 1800 on. The
very
> little I know strikes a strong chord with Canadian reality. Two
languages, two nations, differing values, constitutional
monarchy...bilingual legislation.
> Could you recommend one? I could read one in French, but would all French
language histories of Belgium be one-sided?
<< I will search for one, just to mention one... I do not know, but I have
a colleague with a greater libary.... I will come back to this one.
Best regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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