Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA01871 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:33:36 +0100 Message-ID: <008401c03206$1b23d6a0$9863b8d0@default> From: "Lawrence de Bivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <200010080134.VAA17800@mail4.lig.bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: the conscious universe: subjectivity/objectivity of beliefs Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:32:12 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Joe E. Dees <joedees@bellsouth.net>
Lawrence:
> > The neural basis of ideas, I would suggest, is no more significant for
memes
> > than it is for non-memetic ideas, and so I find the neural elements of
memes
> > not particularly or intrinsically interesting when it comes to studying
> > memes and their workings.
Joe:
> The difference is one of perspective - first-person vs. third-person -
> upon the same phenomenon. My ideas are objective to me, as
> they are objects of my mental attention/intention. That which is
> called subjective is objective to the subject. There is no absolute
> objectivity; only intersubjective agreement.
Yes, agreed. In my classes, I use the term "subjective reality" to refer to
the internal processes of perceiving, pattern-recognition, thinking and
decision-making. This is as 'real' to the individual as anything, yet is so
intensely idiosyncratic to that individual that it appears 'subjective' to
observers of that individual. One of my interests is how, then, the observer
can himself perceive and understand what is going on in another person's
"subjective reality." We see each other through the lenses of our own
"subjective realities." We can reduce the degree of falsifying subjectivity
by listening and observing with greater skill and a wider range of
distinctions, and we can make better sense of it all -- get a better sense
of the structure of another person's subjective reality -- with better
models of what goes on when another person thinks, makes judgements, and
makes decisions.
- Lawrence
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