Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id JAA04675 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:22:12 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:38:08 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIAEIGCHAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200007222101.RAA18439@mail6.lig.bellsouth.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Joe E. Dees
> Sent: Sunday, 23 July 2000 7:06
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes
>
>
> From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes
> Date sent: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 06:41:18 +1000
> Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > Of Joe E. Dees
> > > Sent: Sunday, 23 July 2000 5:12
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au>
> > > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes
> > > Date sent: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:06:26 +1000
> > > Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> > > [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > > > > Of Joe E. Dees
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, 23 July 2000 3:26
> > > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > > > Subject: RE: Gender Bias For Memes
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > [snip]
> > > > > Considering Chris' circumnambulent loquacity, one might wonder if
> > > > > (under Chris' own categorizations) Chris is short for Christine.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Full name is Christopher John Lofting so 'you fail' Joe :-)
> (or is that
> > > > Joesephine?) Perhaps if you took the time to get out more you
> > > would see the
> > > > move away from rigid gender-typing and so open yourself up
> > > more; come down
> > > > from the safety of your ivory tower and at least take-off
> your shoes and
> > > > socks and feel the grass under your feet -- or perhaps that is
> > > too 'female'
> > > > for you? :-)
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > Then you are an exception to your own rule.
> >
> > Not at all. Apply recursion to the basic persona types and all
> of the types
> > we 'see' pop-out. Very simple stuff.
> >
> When you use a plethoric avalanche of fuzzily quasidescriptive
> verbiage from which the claim manages to surface that men as a
> rule speak more precicely and concisely than do womem, you do
> indeed violate your own propounded rule.
it is obvious that you miss the point. Women are better at qualitative
descriptions, at narratives etc as are all others with a well-developed
context sensitive mind. The women angle however allows for conversations to
mean nothing other than the 'high' of having the conversation and so
discussion about 'nothing'. The 'male' emphasis is to get to the point, to
conserve energy with the minimum of expression.
> And the personality enneagram has nine stations; apply dualistic
> thinking to THAT.
No problem. There are NINE states in the I Ching but EIGHT are concerned
with change, the other deals with no change (T'ai Chi). There are NINE
expressed states of the enneragram but of these one deals with no change,
type 3. Type 3 appears to be the most changable in that all of the other
EIGHT types transform into/outof it. The type 3 is thus a SOCIAL type -- an
archetype where we have the archetype hero or archetype villain and thus
reflects the T'ai Chi state. All of the other EIGHT will at some time or
another 'slot' into a 3 and then drop out. This reflects the overall
dynamics in BOTH the ennagram and the MBTI/I Ching etc.
What is noteworthy is that the enneagram is a more dynamic system and when
you move into dynamics you include indeterminacy. When you apply
indeterminacy to the binary systems you move from powers of 2 to powers of 3
and from these emerge frequency distribution patterns that reflect wave
interference patterns; you are losing resolution. (see my websites about
this and the EPR paradox etc where all of the related experiments reflect
(a) applying a dichotomy with (b) a level of indeterminacy. ANY experiment
that does this will generate implied wave interference patterns from the
METHOD alone regardless of scale.)
To see these patterns you have to go to at least 2^6 levels (64 symbols).
When you add-in indeterminacy you move from 64 symbols to 27 where the 27
manifests the emergence of threes. This emergence is due to a lose in
resolution, the price of getting more and more into a dynamic system without
compensating for scale changes etc.
> >
> > Facinating logic here Joe. You start with a false premise and
> then expand
> > into ga-ga land. You must do better Joe to be able to seriously
> address the
> > issues. Please make the effort since from my point of view all you are
> > currently doing is embarrassing yourself. I personally dont
> mind doing that,
> > the feedback is useful and overall I have nothing to lose :-)
> >
> Those who have nothing in their favor indeed have nothing to lose, a
> position that applies a forteriori to you AND your point of view. I
> notice that your previous politeness dropped like a rock when your
> fundamentalistic and reductionistic conception was credibly
> challenged; I expected as much.
very pompous of you :-) you are over confident in your position. A bit too
rigid IMHO but then I can be that too! :-) keep it coming Joe..
best,
Chris.
------------------
Chris Lofting
websites:
http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
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