Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA03401 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:38:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bff418$53b49800$2f06bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIEEIACHAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: Gender Bias For Memes/ Memes and Sexuality Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:05:41 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi Chris, you wrote,
> yes, these distinctions are covered at the websites but in a context of
left
> brain/right brain and so you need to be wary. For example you use the
> action/language distinction. I understand what you mean but I think you
may
> need to expand on it. There is the 'man of few words' cliche that goes
along
> with this...as well as the concept of a 'chatter-box' often used
describing
> females...
The distinction action/ language is used in more general terms. As for the
con-
cept of a ' chatter-box ', I think the term is more cultural related than
it have
a real memetic bias, it is more a prejudice expressed by males.
We ' chatter ' on this list for ages about ' useless things ' like my wife
calls
my memes...!!
> Not sure about consensus as male and opportunism as female. Consensus
means
> an agreement and that is more female in that it is a term found in the
space
> in-between objects; relational space - more female. Aha -- yes of course,
> the PROCESS of consensus making is female but once established so it
becomes
> an object and so male. Thus the term consensus has a development process
> that follows the bind-bound-bond-blend where the initial phase is
different
> parties 'circling' each other, spiraling through spacetime. They contract
> and move from a relational emphasis to becoming/establishing a whole in
the
> form of an agreed-upon term/phrase/ruling etc.
>
> You have male linked to opportunism .. umm..yea..ok... if left to their
own
> devices the idea is not to get consensus as to get consensus to THEIR
point
> of view!
> Thus any perceived weakness in the other party is jumped-upon;
> there is still present the drive to be number one.
<< Maybe a left over from our hunting past, a good hunter knows the weak
spots of its pray. As in politics...I think you can 't 'win ' an argument
on your
opponent strong points, you can only ' win ' by showing his points are
weaker than yours. But that naturally means not that your points are ' stro
nger '.
In a debate points of argument are just tools/ metaphors if you like, you
can 't
win a debate ' on points ' , you win a debate if you can push ' your
points '
through...and that is Male !! The hunter pushes the speer through the heart
of the deer...a hunting party can't be won ' on points ' not by both
parties.
That is too abstract...
> The female emphasis is more on transformation, birth, where neither party
>'wins' in that they all 'win'.
>
> And 'general' as male? umm...maybe I am misinterpreting this but since the
> emphasis in males is more overall on objects emphasis so there is a
> favouring the particular and the local so:
<< Maybe I am in the wrong here, general is not the same as in Sameness,as
in the bias for Males !? >>
> MALE --- FEMALE
>
> Local --- NON-local
> Particular --- General
>
> We CAN mix these distinctions due to the use of the method of recursive
> dichotomisations (and you do mention this), but in general (!) we do see
> these gender differences. (but see later comments re education etc.)
<< My point is here at the very beginning of the genetic/ memetic bias, that
is at the point of dividing into Male/ Female the bias for the discriptions
are
laid down, as in single context for general...it is all in the words we
use...
there is no difference, just the use of words is different, don 't forget,
what
I post here, is translated into English from my writings in Dutch...>>
> Perhaps in general/special you mean casual vs dressed-up? As in males wear
> the same jeans, sneakers, underwear (black suits) for months and the
females
> dress differently everyday? :-)
<< All of this is subject to change, though !! In Belgium there is a
dicussion
going on about what kind of forbidden substances are in the drinking-water,
like oestrogen-residus which unbanlance our hormones.
IMHO man are becoming more ' femanised ' due to those residus, so in a
way more to Difference, in respect you need to be wary...Males are not
' really ' males anymore, some are, but that is another story...>>
> I find the suicide perspective is interesting in that the male blows their
> brains apart (very explicit, in your face) and the female takes a tablet
and
> 'dissapears' (very implicit, quiet).
<< here can the same notion be applied as above, you need to be wary,
again in Belgium, the suicide-attempt, a Female bias is on the rise in the
Male
population...due to the fact IMHO of those mentioned residus...>>
( Snipped a lot )
> The male IS more single context and so more biased to 'react' without
> thought of consequence; the male is more 'totalist', fundamentalist
whereas
> the female is more relativist, more context aware (and so more
discerning).
>
> The goal of education is to 'refine' our gene-derived skills and our
present
> system allows for the de-gendering of some of these seemingly
> gender-specific skills.
<< Same argument here Chris, gender- specific skills are ' fading ', the
in-
tanglement of both sexes becomes a ' fuzzy ' process_ Males are femani-
sed, too mush oestrogen gives cancer on the one hand, ' fat ' on the other
hand_that is according Bill Spight maby the key of the increased puberty
onset
among girls...have we closed the circle...!? (See posts on Monday 17/ 07)
> Overall I have no problems with the list. you seem to have gotten the idea
> re left/right, sameness/difference etc.
Thanks Chris for the compliment, it gave me great pleasure reading that, but
ideas like left/ right; dark/ light, male/ female ;...have always intrigued
me...
Many regards,
Kenneth
(I am, because we are) happy
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