Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA22128 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:59:13 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:13:34 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIOEOCCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458DD@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Vincent Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2000 12:56
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
>
>
> Your example presumably was designed to show the correctness of your
> waypoint argument. What I'm doing here is questioning the validity of an
> example where waypoints are an explicit, conscious part of the knowledge
> being learned by the taxi drivers.
>
fair enough.
> Whay about a Buddhist monk's learning? Is that waypoint-oriented?
>
There is hierarchic structure such that each level is a waypoint and you
measure your degree of 'progress' by linking to a current 'state'.
Meditations act to refine aspect of a particular state that reflects
waypoint mapping but at a time scale of years rather than minutes/hours.
I think Zen attempts to break-free of the links by 'returning' to zero and
with Taoism favours sticking to the moment such that each moment is 'new',
you do not link.
This takes you into the removal of feedback processes in the form of
memory/history that act to control, at best you work with guidance.
Thus taoism/zen gets more 'one' oriented (or zero :-)) whereas buddhism is
more into 'the many' with an emphasis on all connected to everything else -
which is a concept that emerges from secondary thinking, harmonics analysis.
The waypoint mapping comes into things when we introduce feedback processes;
it is like the human approach to lotto where the mathematician's perspective
is 'taoist' in that each draw is 'new' and so there is no linkage, whereas
the population at large, being attuned to feedback processes naturally, link
future draws with current/past draws and 'see' patterns. These patterns
emerge as properties of the METHOD of linkage.
For example, if I take into consideration two previous draw contexts and
apply them to determining the next draw, if you map that out you will see a
fibonacci pattern emerge. As you add more and more draws as contexts to
apply to the next draw so you will see varying patterns emerge getting
closer and closer to a pattern reflecting binary sequences.
The METHOD of analysis does this and so these patterns come from the METHOD
and do not necessarily reflect 'out there' (as in patterns in lotto etc).
The linking of past draws to in some way IDENTIFY the next draw is a form of
waypoint mapping, there is a territorial linkage at work where it is assumed
that past points 'link' to next and so we should be able to identify the
next, we should be able to CORRECTLY identify the next set of numbers.
This may be 'crap' from a mathematical viewpoint but our mental methods
allow us to come up with such concepts and they FEEL 'right' regardless of
'objective' truth since the method is hard-coded, it is instinctive and is
naturally applied to any process; as we interact with the context, both
local and non-local, we apply all tools we have to generate 'meaning' and if
the tools seem to 'work' then we habituate even though the meaning may be
'false' from an external point of view. This method of analysis reflects
secondary methods where we introduce probabilities into our attempts to
identify.
best,
Chris.
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