Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA02615 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:34:23 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31017458E8@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:32:11 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Thanks, I see what you're saying here. I particularly like the lotto
example.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Chris Lofting
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 12:13 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of Vincent Campbell
> > Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2000 12:56
> > To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> > Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
> >
> >
> > Your example presumably was designed to show the correctness of your
> > waypoint argument. What I'm doing here is questioning the validity of
> an
> > example where waypoints are an explicit, conscious part of the knowledge
> > being learned by the taxi drivers.
> >
>
> fair enough.
>
> > Whay about a Buddhist monk's learning? Is that waypoint-oriented?
> >
>
> There is hierarchic structure such that each level is a waypoint and you
> measure your degree of 'progress' by linking to a current 'state'.
> Meditations act to refine aspect of a particular state that reflects
> waypoint mapping but at a time scale of years rather than minutes/hours.
>
> I think Zen attempts to break-free of the links by 'returning' to zero and
> with Taoism favours sticking to the moment such that each moment is 'new',
> you do not link.
>
> This takes you into the removal of feedback processes in the form of
> memory/history that act to control, at best you work with guidance.
>
> Thus taoism/zen gets more 'one' oriented (or zero :-)) whereas buddhism is
> more into 'the many' with an emphasis on all connected to everything else
> -
> which is a concept that emerges from secondary thinking, harmonics
> analysis.
>
> The waypoint mapping comes into things when we introduce feedback
> processes;
> it is like the human approach to lotto where the mathematician's
> perspective
> is 'taoist' in that each draw is 'new' and so there is no linkage, whereas
> the population at large, being attuned to feedback processes naturally,
> link
> future draws with current/past draws and 'see' patterns. These patterns
> emerge as properties of the METHOD of linkage.
>
> For example, if I take into consideration two previous draw contexts and
> apply them to determining the next draw, if you map that out you will see
> a
> fibonacci pattern emerge. As you add more and more draws as contexts to
> apply to the next draw so you will see varying patterns emerge getting
> closer and closer to a pattern reflecting binary sequences.
>
> The METHOD of analysis does this and so these patterns come from the
> METHOD
> and do not necessarily reflect 'out there' (as in patterns in lotto etc).
>
> The linking of past draws to in some way IDENTIFY the next draw is a form
> of
> waypoint mapping, there is a territorial linkage at work where it is
> assumed
> that past points 'link' to next and so we should be able to identify the
> next, we should be able to CORRECTLY identify the next set of numbers.
>
> This may be 'crap' from a mathematical viewpoint but our mental methods
> allow us to come up with such concepts and they FEEL 'right' regardless of
> 'objective' truth since the method is hard-coded, it is instinctive and is
> naturally applied to any process; as we interact with the context, both
> local and non-local, we apply all tools we have to generate 'meaning' and
> if
> the tools seem to 'work' then we habituate even though the meaning may be
> 'false' from an external point of view. This method of analysis reflects
> secondary methods where we introduce probabilities into our attempts to
> identify.
>
> best,
>
> Chris.
>
>
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