Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA08066 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:29:17 +0100 From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:43:33 +1000 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIMENCCGAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000620020444.01ef0f00@mail.rdc1.bc.wave.home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Dan Plante
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2000 7:42
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Cons and Facades - more on truth
>
>
>
> Chris: I pretty much agree with all that you said below (which is more or
> less what you've been saying for quite a while now, of course), mostly
> because it underscores what I've said for years as well, but at a higher
> level of abstraction (you must be right because you have the same
> opinion I
> do ;-).
>
:-)
> A small portion of it I'm not sure I follow - I'll have to sleep
> on it then
> read it again. Also, the waypoint rationale seems a little contrived to me
> ..... maybe I'm wrong, but why couldn't the basis for this be even more
> primal, and adapted for waypoint mapping purposes later on?
This would not surprise me but my emphasis is on a more or less direct path
we can link from reptile-linked territorial marking/mapping (characteristics
tied to the RAS and the more primitive parts of our brain where the absolute
'in here'/'out there' distinction seems to be made) and the development of
syntax at the neocortical level.
We are combining reptilian/amphibian behaviours with mammalian behavours
(hippocampus activity whilst rats run a maze suggesting waypoint mapping in
progress) to neo-mammalian behaviours, Demasio et al discovery of a distinct
feeling whos source is in the left hemisphere related to syntax
processing.(there is a bias here and so the location is more in 'that part
of the brain that processes objects' rather than 'that part of the brain
that processes relationships').
The emphasis is the linking of the points to map a territory and how it is
easy to see the abstraction of this leading to the emergence of syntax
processing.
(I have noticed with a lot of girlfriends, and I have done this
unconsciously myself, where the exboyfriends always manages to leave
something at the girl's place. It seems to manifest territorial marking,
still present but a little more subtle these days :-) a pair of gloves on a
table rather than urinating on the door.)
Maybe an even
> more primitive aquatic organism had a proto-limbic food/not-food or
> mate/not-mate response system to visual cues or even chemical
> markers, that
> later synergistically reacted to some other mutation(s) that proved to be
> dynamically stable because their phenotypic expression fed back as a
> waypointing advantage?
reasonable (as in not too much of an exageration to bring out a point :-)).
I suppose the fact that the territory marking is strongly emphasised in
reptiles (to the extant that we often refer to individuals who behave in
this way as being reptilian in thought i.e. either-or, single context,
self-oriented with a drive to assert their context over everyone elses) sets
a sort of 'start' position within a development continuum that does in
someway go back to pre-biotic etc.
but the 'start' is an emergent property, Batson's "difference that makes a
difference".
>
> On the other hand, I guess we could keep leap-frogging emergent
> dependancies all the way back to the pre-biotic (or even further), so the
> point is probably moot, especially since testing the validity of your
> analyses does not require it, from what I can tell.
>
> By the way, I've also had an enduring interest in the MBTI system, and
> others of its ilk. I also understand that more current, and
> presumably more
> accurate hybrid systems exist. These, along with a vector-math treatment
> are, I think, one half of the key to constructing a predictive model of
> social-memes. Do you have any current link-lists for these newer systems?
> Do you know if the algorithms are available for us common folk or are they
> proprietary? Any help would be appreciated.
>
Have a look at some of the NLP material (NeuroLinguistic Programming). Much
has been dressed up in some fancy terms but the basics are valid, i.e. use
of representations systems based on sensory biases (vision, audition,
kinesthetics, gustatory, olfactory -- all analogue based) and the a-to-d
conversion to language. Establishing rapport and creating a slight trance
state and then delivering the message. Advertising companies, sales teams,
and political groups are getting into this.
Different persona types will respond in different ways but these can be
mapped and so we can create algorithms used to target a persona group or an
individual without their knowing or permission.
The system 'works' since they use the layering of dichotomisations and that
sets off resonances 'in here'. Most have no idea what they are dealing
with -- unfortunate but then the attitude is 'who cares, we are making
money!'. They are into the expression rather than what is behind that
expression, which is what memetics is about.
Some of the material is dangerous in that I can easily send someone home
with mental 'gun' if I am not careful about how I do things.
Best,
Chris.
>
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