Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA00739 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:43:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01bfd898$090def40$b508bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006110929380.25226-100000@marple.umd.edu> Subject: Re: Imitation or transmission? Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:22:15 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence H. de Bivort <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Imitation or transmission?
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2000, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
>
> >merits. Which is why I like this list, fragmentation and all. The area
> >missing from this list,
> >and properly so, IMO, is that of engineering.
> >
> >Lawrence, to which field of engeering are you prefering to !?
> >Technological, biological, mechanical, genetical,...
>
> "Memetic" engineering. I'm not sure who coined this term, but the idea is
> that it might be possible to design and release a meme with a specified
> goal. I'm not sure this constitutes a 'field' of engineering <grin>.
>
> Kenneth, you and I have taken the first steps toward a very interesting
> discussion some time in the past: that of self-building via memes. (This
> is a key interest to me, but difficult for me personally to explore, and I
> appreciate your patience.)
<< Lawrence, what seems to be the trouble !? Don 't bother !
If you want I will be your go-between or your guinea-pig, which one do
you prevere !? I don't mind ! >>
Back to our self-building trough memes concept.
I think I found another chapter for that story.
It may be not a ' real ' one but I think it have its value for our cause.
Do you know the TV- serie Star Trek Voyager !?
I know it sounds silly, but...
The Starship Voyager gets lost in deep space and is trying to get back
home.That is in a nutshell the leading thread which runs trough the serie.
After some time they come in violent contact with a race called the Borg,
a race which operates as one collective mind. Speciality of the Borg,
assimulation of technology and people which can bring something positive
to the collective.
Voyager and its crew gets somewhere down the road the upperhand and
frees one the Borg ' drones '. It seems it was before it was assimulated
a human girl. For the captain of Voyager is seems obvious to give the
girl, (called Seven of Nine, because she was the seventh element of nine)
her human personality back.
Of course, that is very difficult, because the little girl was assimulated
at
a very young age and had know only a ' collective mind '. It is not so
obvious to be giving back your individuality, if that is something you
are not aware of, don' t even know you possess.
So in trying to get her individuality back Seven of Nine makes many
mistakes, but she is in that respect ' thought ' by all members of the
crew ' in the field of humanity and for what that stands for '.
Anyway, to go from a ' collective one mind ' to one ' individualistic
mind ' memetic engineering would be the option.
In that respect, memes are specially designed and released with one
specified goal in mind, that is to make of Seven of Nine once again an
individual, to learn her about humans; humanity and for what its stands
for; to make her understand that everything humans do, say or produce
has somewhere down the line some kind of meaning, value and relevancy,
_something what Seven of Nine lacks,because meaning, value were in
the Borg collective not relevant, any resistance was futile !!
Seven of Nine lacks the understanding for the meaning of small talk,
politeness, rituals,privacy,...
_You can see this as what cults and sekts do to get new members
but then the other way round_ to make of somebody once again an
individual who can/ will live outside any collective is very difficult.
To get a better picture, and to see how Seven evolves troughtout the serie
you have to watch the serie of course.
To my opinion, memetic engineering at its best !
Regards,
Kenneth
(I am, because we are)
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