Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA07961 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 31 May 2000 14:14:17 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bfcb01$c995b260$1b2484d8@default> From: "Anne Hansen" <tazzie@bolian.upnaway.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D310174588A@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Primate Rights Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:11:43 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> The porcine rights thing was a joke (forgot the smiley).
>
> The point about animal experiments, it seems to me, is precisely that one
of
> the things that seems inherently wrong with it is that animals aren't
> capabale of giving consent, thus making experiments illegitimate.
> Alternatively, abolishing experiments on primates because of close
> behavioural similarities seems erroneous to me, becuase where do you draw
> the line?
>
Yes I agree it is a difficult conclusion. I guess with primates the
extinction situation is a worry.. Especialy when a animal is close to
extinction as the Mountain Gorillas happen to be at the moment.
> As has already begun to happen, some experiment are now done on "lower"
> animals- such as that test of drugs on spiders' abilities to make webs
that
> got a lot of press coverage in the UK a while back.
It is fascinating to watch them work this wonder.
Is this any more
> legitimate because spiders are a long way from being similar to humans in
> their behaviour?
>
Like I said before with the biological stuff plus the material I have
read from great Authors such as Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, Franz de waal,
There is a much closer link for Humans with primates than spiders, for me
that is, for you I'm sorry to say obviously not:)
> Vincent
>
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Anne
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 1:13 pm
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: Primate Rights
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thank Ann, very interesting material.
> > >
> > > I've always been both fascinated by Goodall's work (at Gombi isn't
it?)
> > and
> > > concerned at the same time. Fascinated because of how lengthy
> > observations
> > > of chimp behaviour has shown some remarkable parallels with human
> > behaviour,
> > > but concerned because she has a major tendency towards
anthropomorphism
> > (the
> > > chimps have 'names' etc.).
> >
> > I"ll answer on these issues, and your following lines at a later
> > date!
> >
> > > I've said before on this list that I don't buy other animals having
> > > cultures, though; pre-cultural behaviours, or proto-cultural
behaviours
> > > perhaps, but to call these rudimentary behaviours culture I think
makes
> > the
> > > term meaningless.
> > >
> > > Obviously human culture (and things like religious belief) have to
have
> > some
> > > precedent as they are products of natural selection, and it would
indeed
> > be
> > > strange if we didn't see behaviours approximating human behaviours in
> > other
> > > animals.
> > >
> > > Yet both quantitively and qualitatively our behaviours are distinct.
> > Apes
> > > do not spontaneously in the wild develop grammatical language the way
> > they
> > > do in the lab, and experiments have shown that pigs can use computer
> > > joysticks to perform basic tasks as well. Does that mean there should
> > be
> > > porcine rights as well?
> >
> > Not even worth an answer...
> >
> > > Vincent
> >
> > I skipped the last section of the article last night, Ive posted
> > it
> > now, so you can try to comprehend what goes on in the labs!
> >
> > Cheers Anne
> >
> >
> > ((The Oregon Regional Primate Research Center: Oline K.
Ronnekleiv
> > is administering cocaine to pregnant mothers and unborn fetuses. He has
> > discovered that chronic cocaine use causes brain damage. (Project
number:
> > 5
> > P51 RR00163 -38).
> > Miles Novy " . . . studies . . . unanesthetized chronically
> > catheterized maternal-fetal
> > preparations . . . ". He wants to know how hormone levels change during
> > pregnancy in rhesus macaques and baboons. (Project number: 5 R37
> > HDO6159 -25).
> >
> > Washington Regional Primate Research Center: Marnix L. Bosch has
> > learned that HIV and SIV have, " . . . important biological
> > differences."
> > This was discoverd by infecting rhesus and pigtailed macaques. They
were
> > infected both orally and rectally. (Project number: 2 P51
RR00166 -36).
> > Virginia M. Gunderson has recieved a Scientist Development
Award
> > to " . . . gain
> > expertise. . . [and], . . . acquire the skills to attain her career
> > goals."
> > She is injecting chemicals into the brains of very young pigtailed
> > macaques
> > to try to induce seizures.
> >
> > New England Regional Primate Research Center: Janice H. Kinsey
> > designed a database to keep records on the large population of
> > individually
> > housed monkeys. She gathered data on the amount of various behaviors
such
> > as: ". . .pacing, bouncing, rocking, . . . self-biting, grasping, and
> > hair
> > pulling." She learned that 10% of the center's monkeys bite themselves.
> > [Sometimes they chew off fingers, tail tips and chew holes in their arms
> > that require veterinary care.] ( PN # 5 P51 RR00168 -36).
> > Alyssa Rulf Fountain, studying self-injurious behavior (SIB)
such
> > as
> > self-biting, reports that,
> > ". . . the causes are largely unknown." ( PN # 5 P51 RR00168 -36).
> > Both of these studies above are ongoing, but as early as 1990
> > researchers had found that even a small hole between cages of
individually
> > caged monkeys which allowed them to touch each other stopped most of
this
> > behavior. Ms. Fountain's assertion notwithstanding, the cause of SIB
has
> > been well known for years: Most non-human primates are more social than
> > humans and isolating them causes insanity. (See D. Blum, The Monkey
Wars,
> > pg. 191).
> >
> > Wisconsin Regional Primate Research Center: Christopher L. Coe
says
> > that, "Prior research at our laboratory has determined that stressful
> > events experienced by the pregnant female monkey can affect her fetus .
...
> > ."
> > .. Now he wants to know, " . . . whether the absence of breast milk and
> > its
> > soluble immune products exacerbates the effects of prenatal
disturbance."
> > PN # R01 MH41659 -12).
> > In a similar study at the Wisconsin center, researchers are
scarring
> > the amygdala (a deep brain structure) of female monkeys to induce a
> > permanent state of fear. They want to know whether such stress can
affect
> > a
> > baby born to such an afflicted mother.
> >
> > Tulane Regional Primate Research Center: Margaret R. Clark is
working
> > to enlarge the breeding colony of rhesus macaques. She wishes the
> > facility
> > to produce an additional 150 babies a year. She says, " . . . infants
> > will
> > be removed [from their mothers and all adult monkeys] within three days
of
> > birth . . . Management practices will maximize the psychological
> > well-being
> > of the animals." ( PN # 5 P51 RR00164 -34, $103,241).
> > Gamal M. Ghoniem is implanting vascular cuffs around the neck of
> > the
> > bladder of rhesus macaques. A lead to this cuff runs out of the
monkeys'
> > bodies and allows him to squeeze off the neck of the bladder while the
> > monkeys attempt to urinate. He has found that monkeys whose bladder
necks
> > are most tightly closed take longer to pee than those with less
> > obstruction.
> > ( PN # 5 P51 RR00164 -36).
> >
> > Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center: Leonard L. Howell has
> > learned
> > that monkeys trained to drink caffeine will self-administer lower doses
> > than
> > monkeys trained to receive intravenous injections. ( PN # 5 P 51
> > RR00165 -37).
> > Opendra Narayan has successfully developed a cross between SIV
> > and
> > HIV-1. He reports that this new virus he has created is, "highly
> > pathogenic in pigtailed macaques." He does not mention whether it would
> > be
> > harmful to humans. ( PN # 5 P51 RR00165 -37).
> > Margarete Tigges is sewing the eyelids shut on newborn infants. (
> > PN
> > # 5 P51 RR00165 -37).
> >
> > California Regional Primate Research Center: David G. Amaral is
> > using
> > chemical means to permanently disconnect the amygdalas from the rest
of
> > the brain in male monkeys. He wants to know whether they will still be
> > able
> > to communicate with facial expression. He says this will help us
> > understand
> > criminality and psychopathic behavior in humans. ( PN # 5 P51
> > RR00169 -36).
> > William Gilbert is ligating (tying shut) esophagi and catheterizing
> > the
> > tracheas of fetus rhesus macaques. He characterizes this as chronic
> > catheterization which means that these babies inside their mothers have
> > these tubes in them for days or months on end. ( PN # 5 RR000169 -36).
> >
> > What these examples teach is that the federally funded primate
> > research
> > centers around the United States have little regard for or understanding
> > of
> > the animals they experiment on. Any abuse is allowed in the name of
> > Science. Studies routinely repeat experiments that have been done on
> > humans. Monkeys are disposed of as if they are broken equipment.
> > Every center has received warnings about the condition of the
> > animals'
> > housing. Every center keeps monkeys in isolation. Every center
receives
> > over 10 million dollars a year. Expansion is underway around the
country.
> > Every law to protect and enhance the life of these animals has been
> > heavily
> > lobbied against by the biomedical community.
> > The researchers say this work is important because we learn about
> > humans since monkeys and apes are so like us, but at the same time they
> > say
> > we should not be concerned over the torment these animals suffer because
> > they are so unlike us.
> > Biomedical researchers have made the same arguments and done
similar
> > things to minorities throughout history. The research taking place at
the
> > NIH Regional Primate Research Centers is just more of the same. Its
root
> > cause is the bigotry that is always associated with unbridled hubris.
> > Only
> > when people speak out will it end. ))
> >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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