Re: are memes born of complex systems?

From: Kenneth Van Oost (Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be)
Date: Sun May 14 2000 - 15:01:23 BST

  • Next message: Kenneth Van Oost: "Re: are memes born of complex systems ?"

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
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    Subject: Re: are memes born of complex systems?
    Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:01:23 +0200
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Tyger <void@internet-zahav.net.il>
    To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 11:31 AM
    Subject: Re: are memes born of complex systems?

    > So memes are mood dependent?
    > mood as in fluctuations in cultural milieu?
    >
    > If I understand you correctly your take is that memes have no-inherent
    > polarity (negative -positve) but change their polarity (in fact mutating)
    > according to the zeitgeist? any examples?
    >
    > Intriguing, will have to think about this one.
    > T.
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Bruce Jones" <BruceJ@nwths.com>
    > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 10:18 PM
    > Subject: RE: are memes born of complex systems?
    >
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Tyger [SMTP:void@internet-zahav.net.il]
    > > > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 4:09 AM
    > > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > > > Subject: Re: are memes born of complex systems?
    > > >
    > > > So, accordingly, memetics will get simpler, but specific memes will
    get
    > > > more
    > > > complex because they selfishly require more from their environment.?
    > > > ( that of course implies that a meme is an organism!!!)
    > > [BJ]
    > > And therefore supplies its own mode of transmission and survival
    > > ..... dependent on the medium it is growing in!
    > > Angry, upset, sad, depressed, ect. medium will allow for the same
    > > type of meme. Happy, carefree, up medium will allow for a similar meme.
    > >
    > > True survivors will change with the medium even if it means changing
    > > polarity.

    <<See also my comment to Vincent Campbell on that.
    I think Bill is right on that subject !
    For an example see the chicken/ egg problem_the content of the phrase
    stays the same, but its meaning changed over time. Its meaning changed
    from an obscure biological problem to the todays question of the business
    man who throught out his best working forces.
    Memes are in that sense mood dependent because they fluctuate between
    the representations. That is, if we are angry there is another
    representation
    in our mind then that we are upset, sad, depressed, etc...Memes have to
    mutate rapidly in order to survive; in order to get their message throught.
    It is not very clear, but I am working on a better response.>>

    Kenneth

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