Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA06834 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 14 May 2000 10:50:16 +0100 Message-ID: <005701bfbd8d$49936ca0$ef0abed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB18A@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Useless memes Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:14:07 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Useless memes
> I actually think it might be more fundamental than that, because many of
> these kind of sayings or catchphrases have very unclear meanings, and the
> origin of the analogy has been lost (or transformed). After all what do
> phrases like 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' or 'the grass
is
> always greener on the other side of the fence' actually mean, and where
did
> they come from? (answers on a postcard :-) ).
>
> Or, to put it another way, a lot of phrases persist without its users
really
> knowing what it means or where it came from. I would say that many
persist
> not because they are inherently useful, but because they appear to be
> useful- the truth trick. How do you resolve a complex argument about
cause
> and effect in the relationship between language and society? You use a
> saying which implies the impossiblity of resolving it - what came first
the
> chicken or the egg (even though this is not necessarily an impossible
> question to answer).
>
> Or to be fair to those utilitarians on the list, the use of phrases often
> changes markedly, whilst the content stays essentially the same. So is it
> the usefulness of these memes that allows them to exist and persist, or
some
> other characteristic (i.e. their reproducibility- which may include
utility,
> but isn't exclusively reliant on utility)?
>
> Vincent
<< Of course, in the context of the selfish meme, she has to use other
strategies, in your case another use for a phrase, to propagate herself.
If the meme uses al the time the same phrase to replicate herself there
will be no evolution, no selection either, and therefor at some point in
time
her propagation will stop.
The content will indeed stay the same, but here the same remark, the
meme has to add more usefullness to herself to stay in the race in order
to survive.
Thus in order to survive a meme has to propagate her content in as many
ways as possible, but she has to watch out for those memes which are
trying to put her under. A meme has to do two things,(1) keeping her content
alive and well and (2) making up all the time other strategies to stay in
the
race.
So I think,
Kenneth
>
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