Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id KAA06823 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 14 May 2000 10:50:08 +0100 Message-ID: <005601bfbd8d$48e26c20$ef0abed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <200005112107.RAA20822@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Fwd: Did language drive society or vice versa? Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:43:34 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe E. Dees <joedees@bellsouth.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Did language drive society or vice versa?
>
> >
> > If we take the stand that all animals have language and all animals
> > have a society and if memes are an integral part of the language of
society
> > then memetics IS at the atomic level of all interactions. However, if
we
> > take the position that memes must propagate their selfness to survive
and
> > memes can only be replicated through abstract ideas ..... then only man
can
> > have memes and memes are required for society.
> >
> Ah, but our language is open-ended, employing the phonemic
> principle, whereby a finite number of distinguishable sounds may
> be strung together in differing ways to form an infinite number of
> possible words - besides which, our word-referent links are arbitrary
> and multiple (we have multiple languages), not species-specific and
> genetically circumscribed.
<<Not to nit pick any further, not species-specific !?
If we take species in the narrow sense (f..e in the sense of the lower
(poorer) classes, what about slang !? >>
There is also the little matter of syntax;
> we have it; they don't. Besides which we have terms for which
> there are no concrete perceptual referents; the terms represent
> abstractions - no animal species has been known to generate
> anything approaching this. To sum up, there are VAST differences
> between OUR language(s) and the communicative systems of
> other species.
> >
>
>
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