Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id JAA06704 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 14 May 2000 09:36:12 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01bfbd82$f64b6e80$ef0abed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB16F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> <3919DB8C.A10FF83@pacbell.net> <00cb01bfbb3c$3b77c4c0$03000004@r2z3h3> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:52:21 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyger <void@internet-zahav.net.il>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> Hello Bill,
>
> I think you point right at the moon here with your explicit question :
> "What *is* the meme that survives?"
> That imho is exactly the gyst of the memetic debate and should be the
focus
> of memetic research.
> it is my opinion that what survives in you has nothing to do with the
> Actual/Physical object called a Winston Cigarette. what survives in you is
a
> representation of an idea. a representation that carries within itself a
> replicative power in and of itself. " It" (the self serving meme). The
mind
> retains the said representation because "It fits" the mind receptors of
> thought (that is of course a metaphor). Yet if I would dare extend this
> metaphor a bit further I would say that an encapsulated idea, represented
in
> the form of a statement (in this case an Ad), becomes a meme of amazing
> durability, loosing all contact with its origins of arisals (the
connection
> with the actual Winston Cig.).
> As I see it, what survives in the mind is a set of qualities embeded in
> certain gramatical arrangements which are, so to speak, 'good' at
> maintaining these said qualities for an extended period of time. Bruce
> suggested not too long ago that this set of qualities may stand as the
'eie'
> or the character of a meme (its subjective irreducible) and I think he may
> be on to something here.
> Best,
> Tyger.
<< Can' t agree more with you on that !!
I said it before ( within the discussion about what is the meaning in the
meme-
tics/ see Faichney about this) and I will say it here once again,without
coun-
ting in the neurological representations of what somebody is thinking, you
can' t fully determine the aspects of memetics !
That is, for example (my favourite stop-gap), the state of mind wherein a
child found herself at the time she decided (for herself) to become a
teacher,
plays a major role in (hers) future meme activity and e(a)ffects her beha-
vior.
It is what is ' coded ' in the meme (that is all possible
interpretations,all
possible angles of a problem, all what is possible meaningfull to a meme
in included in the ' meme-structure ' and is replicated.
Regards,
Kenneth
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