Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA23514 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 23:29:14 +0100 Message-ID: <00cb01bfbb3c$3b77c4c0$03000004@r2z3h3> From: "Tyger" <void@internet-zahav.net.il> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB16F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> <3919DB8C.A10FF83@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:29:53 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hello Bill,
I think you point right at the moon here with your explicit question :
"What *is* the meme that survives?"
That imho is exactly the gyst of the memetic debate and should be the focus
of memetic research.
it is my opinion that what survives in you has nothing to do with the
Actual/Physical object called a Winston Cigarette. what survives in you is a
representation of an idea. a representation that carries within itself a
replicative power in and of itself. " It" (the self serving meme). The mind
retains the said representation because "It fits" the mind receptors of
thought (that is of course a metaphor). Yet if I would dare extend this
metaphor a bit further I would say that an encapsulated idea, represented in
the form of a statement (in this case an Ad), becomes a meme of amazing
durability, loosing all contact with its origins of arisals (the connection
with the actual Winston Cig.).
As I see it, what survives in the mind is a set of qualities embeded in
certain gramatical arrangements which are, so to speak, 'good' at
maintaining these said qualities for an extended period of time. Bruce
suggested not too long ago that this set of qualities may stand as the 'eie'
or the character of a meme (its subjective irreducible) and I think he may
be on to something here.
Thirty years ago in France there was an Ad for a chocolate called LANVIN,
not only have I never tasted the said chocolate, I have never even seen such
an object, and heard the Ad maybe two or three times, yet to this day, I
have it as clear as if I heard it today. the ad said : " je suis fou! du
chocolat Lanvin". what a meme!! what interests me particularily is its
durability and the inability of the mind to really get rid of it.
Best,
Tyger.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Spight" <bspight@pacbell.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> Dear Vincent,
>
> > It's the slogans that get passed on, the memes.
>
> A good point, and one that raises the question, what memes?
>
> I am old enough to remember "over, under, around, and through
> Pall Mall's blend of famous tobaccos." But I never smoked
> cigarettes, much less Pall Mall. If the "Winston tastes good"
> meme survives in me, why don't I think that Winstons taste (or
> tasted) good? What *is* the meme that survives?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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