Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA20468 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 13:54:46 +0100 Message-ID: <39191666.4C26D5B5@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:57:26 +0100 From: Chuck Palson <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener References: <200005100750.IAA00646@faichney.demon.co.uk> <008401bfbaea$a2a1f5a0$03000004@r2z3h3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Tyger wrote:
> Propaganda can be seen as very usefull, not only to the propagandist but to
> the culture and society in which it operates. propaganda (without value
> associated) I see as an attribute of the emergent property of groups.
Tyger - could you define what you mean by emergent? I see this word a lot in the
last few years, and I wonder about it. It is a term in evolutionary studies that
is specifically anti-evolution because it posits that something can emerge from
nothing -- which would be negative evidence for evolution. But I have the sense
that it is being used differently by others.
> its
> main purpose (which is different then the intended purpose of the said
> propagandist) is the cohesion it creates in a given culture. hence its
> usefulness. memes are the discreet entities of propaganda, but its
> understanding should be on the meta-system level.
> thus propaganda works because it is a glue, cohesive force.
> its use to the recipient: giving or creating the feeling (or illusionary
> feeling) of being part of a/the group.
It's not entirely illusory by any means. Leaders must give concrete benefits to
earn loyalty. And there ARE concrete benefits to acting as part of a group
against another group, especially if there are limits to available resources.
>
>
> Tyger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
> > Chuck wrote:
> > >Robin Faichney wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Is "propagandistic value" the same as, or different from, "usefulness"?
> > >>
> > >The best person to ask that is your local politician. Far be it for me to
> be so
> > >pretentious as to know the answer.
> >
> > Propaganda is obviously of use to the propagandist, but surely your
> > model says that a meme won't be picked up unless it is of use to the
> > recipient -- in which case, what is propaganda?
> >
> > --
> > Robin Faichney
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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