Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA04733 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:42:17 GMT Message-ID: <00ee01bf8bb2$9aa04ee0$2d04bfc3@tyger> From: "tyger2" <tiger.roma@flashnet.it> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <1259327788-4347232@smtp.clarityconnect.com> <38CAC5AF.408EB4C6@fcol.com> <009801bf8b99$66c050c0$2d04bfc3@tyger> <38CAE3F8.FAB6DA0B@fcol.com> Subject: Re: Proto-meme Was:Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:36:19 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hello Bob,
Yes, I agree totally, the memes dimension seem to be only one strata of a
many layered input output situation of the mind.
As I see it the proto-meme can stand for the symbology level and the meme
level for the whole scope of communication.
futhermore on the same line I'd like to propose the memetat (short for meme
habitat) as a term designating the whole possible range of locations where a
proto meme may be hidden or latent such as books libraries or even under
close scrutiny an unconscious memory. (i noticed someone used the word
arifact for that..)
you wrote:
"Isn't it remarkable that we respond so similarly or understand
> words so similarly, etc., etc. "
I think that indeed this is quite remarkable given the ultimately unique
circumstances of the human mind. However it seems that we always operate in
a level of proximity or approximation to meaning and never on a one to one
ratio. thus the important aspects may be 'similar but not exact'.
This aspect of memetics seems to me most important that it paves the way for
a complete theory of proximity of meaning.....
Respects,
Tyger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G. Grimes" <grimes@fcol.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 1:25 AM
Subject: Proto-meme Was:Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya
> Hey, Tyger, I really like protomeme! Perhaps others would like to comment
on
> that or suggest others. We have pretty much come to agreement (except for
the
> behaviorist's G meme type where the behavior is the meme), I think, that
the
> meme doesn't exist except internally and that the symbology, just like
with
> other words, is just that, symbology, and doesn't assume active stature
again
> until back within a nervous system, i.e., in situ. Again, that is where
> reproduction by action and mutation due to organic environmental effects
would
> take place and some of us agree that this is dependent on the vagaries of
the
> individual nervous system where the meme, in situ, is unique just like
other
> symbology... Isn't it remarkable that we respond so similarly or
understand
> words so similarly, etc., etc. Still, they are "close enough for
government
> work!"
>
> Cordially,
>
> Bob
>
> tyger2 wrote:
>
> > Bob wrote:
> > > How about some suggestions, folks
> >
> > How about...... PROTO_MEMES?
> >
> > Tyger
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert G. Grimes" <grimes@fcol.com>
> > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 11:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya
> >
> > > Raymond,
> > >
> > > There have been many descriptions on the list; meme seed, meme husk,
> > symbolized
> > > meme, meme representation, etc., etc., etc., take your pick or make up
a
> > new
> > > one. I kind of like meme seed, myself, although I started off with
> > husk...
> > >
> > > Inactive meme, nascent meme, idle meme, incomplete meme, and we can go
on
> > > forever, I believe, and we do need some kind of standard nomenclature
for
> > it, I
> > > think. I'm sure that there is one we haven't thought of in the
past...
> > >
> > > How about some suggestions, folks...
> > >
> > > Cordially,
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > Raymond Recchia wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If someone has a meme writes it down in a book and the book sits
around
> > for
> > > > a hundred years before someone picks it and acquires the meme what
> > > > terminology do you use to describe the information in the book when
no
> > one
> > > > has the meme in their head? I'm not saying that you have to call it
a
> > meme
> > > > when it is sitting in the book I am curious as to what you would
call
> > it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bob Grimes
> > >
> > > http://members.aol.com/bob5266/
> > > http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/bobinjax/
> > > http://www.phonefree.com/Scripts/cgiParse.exe?sID=28788
> > > Jacksonville, Florida
> > > Bob5266@aol.com robert.grimes@excite.com bobinjax@hotbot.com
> > >
> > > Bobgrimes@zdnetonebox.com
> > >
> > > Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is
more
> > > in control...
> > >
> > > Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
> --
> Bob Grimes
>
> http://members.aol.com/bob5266/
> http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/bobinjax/
> http://www.phonefree.com/Scripts/cgiParse.exe?sID=28788
> Jacksonville, Florida
> Bob5266@aol.com robert.grimes@excite.com bobinjax@hotbot.com
>
> Bobgrimes@zdnetonebox.com
>
> Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is more
> in control...
>
> Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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