Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA04648 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:46:18 GMT Message-Id: <200003112241.RAA01685@mail5.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:48:14 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya In-reply-to: <001201bf8ba8$e0e2f4c0$5103bed4@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re:Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya
Date sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:26:41 +0100
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Joe,
>
> I like to answer your remark with yes,that is maybe what memes want us to
> believe too,but I won't.
>
> According to the insight of the memes in themselves grows larger how inferior
> becomes the role of our body.In that case memes are part of a memetic con-
> sciousness,a conscient memepool.
> Anyhow,men_as we know them,will then long be gone,but memes will go on.
> Memes in the conscient memepool,will not loose their possiblity to behold
> themselves_they will have " memorized " all of the possible insights to look
> upon themselves,to admire themselves,to learn,to understand,to improve...
> to replicate,vary and thus evolve and that includes,then,the insight to be self-
> conscient.
> It may be far-fetched,but may we say Memetician Beings!?
>
> The above mentioned ideas are also found by Blackmore Susan/Richard Bond
> argue the case Out of our minds Are ideas self replicating?
>
> Quote,
>
> >Memes are spreading more and more quikly and the technology we have
> created ensures they will be ever quicker next year....So could all these com-
> puters,net servers and web sites be the creation of the selfish memes? And if
> so will our old-fashioned biological brains one day be obsolete?<
> End quote.
>
> I think,to the extreme they will !!!
>
It sounds like you need to join the extropy list, for your
scenario is dependent upon cybernetic augmentation and cognitive
uploading. The problem is that what is not understood cannot be
uploaded. By the way, memes and brains are not a zero-sum
game, where if one grows, the other must shrink. This would lead,
if taken to its logical consequences, to the absurd situation where
the memes could no longer evolve because no further elaborations
could fit inside our brains. Rather, memes and brains are
symbiotic and coevolutionary; where one grows, so must the other.
The contained cannot outstrip the container. Not only does
Blackmore agree with this position (one of the things she got right,
although she got many, including the lack of a self, wrong), but so
does Merlin Donald (ORIGINS OF THE MODERN MIND) and
Terrence W. Deacon (THE SYMBOLIC SPECIES: THE
COEVOLUTION OF LANGUAGE AND THE BRAIN).
>
> Regard,
>
> Kenneth
>
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