Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya

From: Mark M. Mills (mmills@htcomp.net)
Date: Fri Mar 03 2000 - 17:34:37 GMT

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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:34:37 -0500
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: "Mark M. Mills" <mmills@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: Monkeys stone herdsman in Kenya
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    Raymond,

    I was trying to better understand what you used to distinguish 'socially
    derived behaviors' and 'memes.' People use meme in a lot of different
    ways. I see most falling into one of two general usages.

    Some people use the genotype-phenotype relationship to define meme. In
    this case, the meme is some neural activity or circuit configuration and
    thus analogous to the genotype. Behavior is the phenotype (memotype).
    Thus, one can say that wearing a suit and tie (socially transmitted
    behavior) is memotype to the neural configuration is meme (genotype).

    Blackmore's Meme Machine discounts the genotype-phenotype logic explicitly.
     She suggests the behavior and the meme are indistinguishable. The suit
    and tie are both behavior and meme.

    In earlier posts these two competing definitions were labeled 'G-memes' and
    'L-memes'. The 'G-meme' got its name from Derek Gatherer and an article he
    published in the Journal of Memetics. The 'L-meme' definition got its name
    from Aaron Lynch and his JoM article.

    I advocate the L-meme definition.

    I was wondering which model/definition you were using. Here is what you said:

    >>Just to toss in my two cents on this subject I think we do have to be
    >>careful to distinguish between socially derived behaviors and memes.

    Based on your elaborating comments, it seems you are using the G-meme
    model, equating meme and behavior. The difference between 'meme' (G-meme)
    and new individual behavior is the treatment the social group makes of
    their reaction to the new behavior. You are distinguishing between
    continuously transmitted behaviors (a social group's memorization of
    previous innovations) and individual innovations themselves. As best I can
    interprete these comments, behaviors become memes when they are replicated
    over time by members of the group. In other words, a behavior is only a
    meme if a social group imitates the behavior.

    Am I understanding what you've said?

    Thanks,

    Mark

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