Re: memetics-digest V1 #130

From: Robin Faichney (robin@faichney.demon.co.uk)
Date: Tue Feb 29 2000 - 17:24:25 GMT

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    From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
    Organization: Reborn Technology
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #130
    Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:24:25 +0000
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    On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
    >From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
    >
    >> What is MEANING, and how does it get copied?
    >>
    >Main Entry: mean·ing
    >Pronunciation: 'mE-ni[ng]
    >Function: noun
    >Date: 14th century
    >1 a : the thing one intends to convey especially by language :
    >PURPORT b : the thing that is conveyed especially by language :
    >IMPORT
    >2 : something meant or intended : AIM <a mischievous meaning
    >was apparent>
    >3 : significant quality; especially : implication of a hidden or special
    >significance <a glance full of meaning>
    >4 a : the logical connotation of a word or phrase b : the logical
    >denotation or extension of a word or phrase
    >- meaning adjective
    >- mean·ing·ly /-ni[ng]-lE/ adverb
    >Meaning gets copied by means of communication.

    That doesn't tell us anything. I'd ask "what is communication", except I
    suspect you'd answer "that which copies meaning".

    >> Consider this quote:
    >>
    >> A last hope for the Darwin-dreaders is simply to deny that what happens to
    >> memes when they enter a mind could ever, ever be explained in "reductionistic,"
    >> mechanistic terms. (DDI p368)
    >>
    >> Clearly, those who argue against so-called reductionist explanations using the
    >> concepts of meme "software" running on genetically designed "hardware" (or
    >> "wetware") are Dennettian Darwin-dreaders, skyhook-true-believers.
    >>
    >No we're not; we just recognize that the hardware has, due to
    >genetically based evolution, become so complex as to admit of
    >recursivity, self-referentiality and self-awareness. Genetics has
    >evolved to the point where it has overthrown itself by programming
    >us to have the capacity to transcend our programming, and to
    >create a rapidly evolving (by genetic standards) memetically
    >mediated culture. The position is called emergent cognitive
    >materialism, and not only are Daniel C. Dennett and Jerry A. Fodor
    >adherents, but it has become the dominant stance in the field of
    >cognitive psychology.

    But there seems a contradiction here: Dennett says those who deny meme
    processing could ever be explained in "reductionistic," mechanistic terms are
    Darwin-dreaders. You say no, you're not, and what's more, according to you,
    Dennett shares your position. What gives?

    --
    Robin Faichney
    

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