Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA02534 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:30:07 GMT Message-Id: <200003012128.QAA10783@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:31:59 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #130 In-reply-to: <00022917341400.00354@faichney> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Reborn Technology
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #130
Date sent: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:24:25 +0000
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
> >
> >> What is MEANING, and how does it get copied?
> >>
> >Main Entry: mean·ing
> >Pronunciation: 'mE-ni[ng]
> >Function: noun
> >Date: 14th century
> >1 a : the thing one intends to convey especially by language :
> >PURPORT b : the thing that is conveyed especially by language :
> >IMPORT
> >2 : something meant or intended : AIM <a mischievous meaning
> >was apparent>
> >3 : significant quality; especially : implication of a hidden or special
> >significance <a glance full of meaning>
> >4 a : the logical connotation of a word or phrase b : the logical
> >denotation or extension of a word or phrase
> >- meaning adjective
> >- mean·ing·ly /-ni[ng]-lE/ adverb
> >Meaning gets copied by means of communication.
>
> That doesn't tell us anything. I'd ask "what is communication", except I
> suspect you'd answer "that which copies meaning".
>
Sing after me - "You can't have one without the other!"
Pheromones facilitation insect mating attraction are genetically
driven cause and effect, rather than a meaning-communication.
>
> >> Consider this quote:
> >>
> >> A last hope for the Darwin-dreaders is simply to deny that what happens to
> >> memes when they enter a mind could ever, ever be explained in "reductionistic,"
> >> mechanistic terms. (DDI p368)
> >>
> >> Clearly, those who argue against so-called reductionist explanations using the
> >> concepts of meme "software" running on genetically designed "hardware" (or
> >> "wetware") are Dennettian Darwin-dreaders, skyhook-true-believers.
> >>
> >No we're not; we just recognize that the hardware has, due to
> >genetically based evolution, become so complex as to admit of
> >recursivity, self-referentiality and self-awareness. Genetics has
> >evolved to the point where it has overthrown itself by programming
> >us to have the capacity to transcend our programming, and to
> >create a rapidly evolving (by genetic standards) memetically
> >mediated culture. The position is called emergent cognitive
> >materialism, and not only are Daniel C. Dennett and Jerry A. Fodor
> >adherents, but it has become the dominant stance in the field of
> >cognitive psychology.
>
> But there seems a contradiction here: Dennett says those who deny meme
> processing could ever be explained in "reductionistic," mechanistic terms are
> Darwin-dreaders. You say no, you're not, and what's more, according to you,
> Dennett shares your position. What gives?
>
You may schematize the evolutionary process of memesis, but
you cannot do so correctly if you leave out essential components
of the systemic structure, such as signification, intention and
subjectivity, which you are wont to do. A. J. Greimas schematizes
semantics in ON MEANING; why should you think such a thing
impossible, useless or undesirable? You are being
OVERreductionistic.
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
>
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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