Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA18567 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:28:38 GMT Message-ID: <001201bf7be4$4b28fac0$2f05bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Re:meaning in memetics Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:51:41 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF7BEC.AC132F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
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First,in my last message there was a word missing in the following sentence
<' Our ' memes have no urge...>
This has to be:
< ' Our ' memes have no urge to throw themselves into the sort of collectiveness
in which they will perish.>
Sorry about that!
Here is my next message as promised.
On Friday 18/02/2000 Lawrence H de Bivort wrote:
<The individual human being may not be as 'unpredictable' as it is often
assumes.It may be no than a matter of the accuracy and level of detail
of the models we use to 'model' individual.My sense is that we are as
close to accurately predicting individual behavior as we are mass behavior.
In the end,I think,we will find it easier to predict the individual with true
accuracy than mass behavior,which seems doomed to statistical
analysis of probalities.>
I can't agree on this!
I wonder,how are you gonna support this claim without denying the concept of
memetics itself!?
I may not be in control over my behavior according to the meme point of view,
mine memes are! Where is the idea of selfish memes in your claim gone to?
I don't think that any " individuality " -meme will stop to propagate herself;will
break off her branch with the memetic lineage with which she is connected and/
or will not stop to direct us (the vehicles where throught she propagates) to find
herself eventually into a sort of collective behavioral pattern! It will mean that the
meme did ' kill ' herself and I don't think that that is the goal of any individuality-
meme_what purpose would she have by doing it!?
Accomplish a sense of community? Not with the hyper-individualists we are
today though!! Not to say selfish!!
I understand that individual behavior could be measurable by collective agents
and can be directed by propaganda etc.,but we have seen the consequences of that.This way of thinking is dangerous!
To my thinking,you can predict individual behavior,yes_if you count in really all
possible interpretations,all possible angles of a problem,all what an individual
carries within himself about society/ethics/politics/etc._if you are,in that respect
in total control over that individual,his life and his memes.And that can be done
only by force,counting in_of course_the certainty that you can guide all of our
memes!
And still,to my thinking,that is quite impossible from the meme point of view!?
Or,must we count in for that reason that the individuality-meme directs us,
tricks us,hooks us into than mass behavior!?
What are her gains here!?
Regards,
Kenneth
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