Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA18494 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:37:57 GMT Message-Id: <200002201938.OAA00766@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:40:16 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #130 In-reply-to: <00022008092900.00482@faichney> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Reborn Technology
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #130
Date sent: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:02:57 +0000
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
> >
> >> Cutting (off) to the chase, here...
> >>
> >> On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Soc Microlab 2 wrote:
> >> <big snip>
> >> >As I say chapters 12-14 of Darwin's Dangerous Idea are probably the best explanation of Dennett's view on
> >> >this, but if you didn't have much time you could get an idea from the sub-chapter "could there be a science
> >> >of memetics?" pp. 352-360. This quote should count as evidence that Dennett thinks memetics is about
> >> >meaning: (from DDI p. 353-4)
> >> >
> >> >"what is preserved and transmitted in cultural evolution is *information* - in a media-neutral,
> >> >language-neutral sense. Thus the meme is primarily a *semantic* classification, not a *syntactic*
> >> >classification that might be directly observable in "brain language" or natural language."
> >>
> >> What he's saying here is that the meme is encoded, not straight physical
> >> information. The encoding can, and does, vary, but the encoded message remains
> >> the same. No?
> >>
> >Yes, this is true. The coding is the syntax, and coding schemes
> >may be studied structurally, without reference to meaning, kinda
> >like the relations between algebraic variables may be studied
> >independent of them being assigned specific quantities, as long as
> >they are abstracted from any particular message. The message,
> >however, is semantic, and cannot be so studied,
>
> It cannot be studied as if it were syntax, because it is not. I'm saying it is
> a different type and/or level of encoding (and it's relatively arbitrary,
> while syntax is systematic). Consider a hypothetical language where every
> utterance consisted of just one word. Syntax, which is about how words are
> combined, would not be an issue. I say that the meaning of each word is
> clearly encoded by that word. In fact, though it's probably an
> oversimplification, you could say that about individual words in real
> languages. Do you agree, and if not, why not?
>
Becaus of Ferdinand de Saussure (COURSE IN GENERAL
LINGUISTICS), who pointed out that words only possess meanings
in a gestalt field composed of a vocabulary of other words, with
which they interrelate through distinctions of opposition, distinction,
similarity, contrast, and so on (also see Greimassian semiotics,
particularly STRUCTURAL SEMANTICS and ON MEANING, for the
mutual constraints obtaining between sign-sign and sign-signified
relations).
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
>
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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