Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA19994 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:08:17 GMT Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:01:54 GMT From: "Soc. Lab. 2" <A.Rousso@uea.ac.uk> Subject: meaning in memetics To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Message-ID: <ECS10002091254A@imap.uea.ac.uk> Delivery-Receipt-To: "Soc. Lab. 2" <j218@imap.uea.ac.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
<snip from robin/joe>
> >It does mean that you're wrong about meaning having no
place in=20
> >the foundation of memetics. Do you even know what the
word=20
> >"meme" means? Just as genetic characteristics are
enGENdered=20
> >(replicated) through sexual reproduction, memes are
reMEMbered=20
> >(lodged in the MEMory) by means of communicative
replication=20
> >between intentionalities.
>
> Again I have to ask, sez who? If this was established,
you'd obviously b=
> e
> able to cite copious support. So why don't you?
>
> (In case it's not obvious, the point with which I disagree
is that
> intentionalities are necessarily involved. I know of no
reason to believ=
> e
> that, and in fact, off hand, can't think of any argument
that's ever been=
> made
> for it. Though I haven't yet read every article in the
JoM archives.)
you don't seem to have read much Dennett - or if you have,
you're at total loggerheads with the most fundamental aspect
of his theory. Joe's comprehensive mind/meaning list of
authors nevertheless missed out Darwin's Dangerous Idea and
Consciousness Explained, both by Dennett, and both it should
be stressed, the only established works on mind that
explicitly use memes. I could quote extensively from those
two, but while you're in the mood to tell others how much
reading they need to do, I guess I'll tell you to (re)read
them. Here's a quote from "Dennett and his Critics", from
Dennett's replies p.230:
"Above the biological level of brute belief and simple
intentional icons, human beings have constructed a level
that is composed of objects that are socially constructed,
replicated, distributed, traded (etc). . . Dawkins has given
us a generic name for these things - memes - and what I have
called opinions are a species of memes: sentences on whose
truth a person has, in effect, made a wager."
now, if that ain't meaning maybe we are going to have to go
back to the basics.
To reiterate, Dennett sez that intentionalities are
necessarily involved in memetics - intentionalities are (he
thinks) the foundations from which we get meaning, and
memetics is his theory of meaning. And whether you like it
or not, Dennett is the Granddaddy of memetics right now.
cheers, alex rousso.
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