Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA00448 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:15:03 GMT From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: More on what memes are made of Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:16:33 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200002090215.VAA27513@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net> Message-Id: <00021308203201.00320@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Wed, 09 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
>> >An arrow is both more substantial (being, after all, composed of
>> >substance) and more real than a trajectory, which is dependent
>> >upon the arrow for its existence, and not vice-versa.
>>
>> Please define "substance". And, explain how the trajectory's dependence upon
>> the arrow is different from the arrow's dependence on its molecules.
>>
>For you, of course, the world is no more real than the mind; in fact,
>you'd be hard-pressed to admit that ANYTHING was real, thus
>stripping all meaning from both reality and its correlative opposite,
>unreality. "Substance" is that which possesses the properties of
>extension and duration in spatiotemporality. BTW, I consider
>energy to be as substantial as matter, since they are convertible
>into each other. It takes many many molecules to make an arrow,
>but they actually can MAKE one (as well as many other things);
>whereas one arrow can support a trajectory, but a million arrows
>cannot MAKE one.
So define "MAKE". (Though this could well have the potential for an infinite
regress.)
I'm sorry, Joe, but memes, intentionality, minds, etc, all exist at the
level(s) of patterns of action and/or organisation, ie different kinds of
trajectory. All else is inert matter. If trajectories aren't real, neither
are memes, nor minds. Unless you know better, of course, in which case I'm
sure you'll enlighten us. :-)
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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