Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA03830 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:07:16 GMT Message-Id: <200002150002.TAA11764@mail5.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:09:30 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: More on what memes are made of In-reply-to: <00021308203201.00320@faichney> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Reborn Technology
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: More on what memes are made of
Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 08:16:33 +0000
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 03 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >> >An arrow is both more substantial (being, after all, composed of
> >> >substance) and more real than a trajectory, which is dependent
> >> >upon the arrow for its existence, and not vice-versa.
> >>
> >> Please define "substance". And, explain how the trajectory's dependence upon
> >> the arrow is different from the arrow's dependence on its molecules.
> >>
> >For you, of course, the world is no more real than the mind; in fact,
> >you'd be hard-pressed to admit that ANYTHING was real, thus
> >stripping all meaning from both reality and its correlative opposite,
> >unreality. "Substance" is that which possesses the properties of
> >extension and duration in spatiotemporality. BTW, I consider
> >energy to be as substantial as matter, since they are convertible
> >into each other. It takes many many molecules to make an arrow,
> >but they actually can MAKE one (as well as many other things);
> >whereas one arrow can support a trajectory, but a million arrows
> >cannot MAKE one.
>
> So define "MAKE". (Though this could well have the potential for an infinite
> regress.)
>
Comprise.
>
> I'm sorry, Joe, but memes, intentionality, minds, etc, all exist at the
> level(s) of patterns of action and/or organisation, ie different kinds of
> trajectory. All else is inert matter. If trajectories aren't real, neither
> are memes, nor minds. Unless you know better, of course, in which case I'm
> sure you'll enlighten us. :-)
>
Trajectories, memes, intentionality, minds, are all real only to
minds, i.e. in the realm of meaning (including inert matter).
Without the meaning which minds impose, via intention, on the
brute facticity of being, none of these words would exist (for
significations require a signifiER), and their referents would never
be apprehended (this takes an apprehendER).
> --
> Robin Faichney
>
>
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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>
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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