Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA15560 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 5 Feb 2002 03:01:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.132] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Apoptosis Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:56:10 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F277RjUbjZRMghVWhxH00009ca9@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 02:56:10.0241 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA348710:01C1ADF0] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.edu.au>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Apoptosis
>Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:35:32 +1100
>
>Forgive the top posting:
>
>Apoptosis is the genetically controlled death of cells based on the
>signals they receive from their neighbours. It is a form of cellular
>altruism that makes sense only at the level of organism selection -
>those organisms that have a failure of apoptotic mechanisms in some of
>their cells end up with cancer or developmental malformations or
>diseases like elephantisis.
>
>Memes could only be "programmed" to extinguish themselves if they were
>carried as part of a developmental program for a larger memeplex. And
>instance might be the teaching of billiard ball physics to students
>before they learn about the joys of QM and relativity theory.
>
>A better instance might be the "idea gas law" - teach them that first,
>then start teaching them about its failures, under P's that make van der
>Waals forces significant, etc. In this respect those propaedeutic memes
>might be seen as scaffolding for later more adaptive memes in the
>context of more sophisticated "ecologies" (ie, technologies).
>
I'd nominate this for post of the month, if we had such a thing here.
>
>On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 03:07 AM,
><rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello Kenneth
>>
>>Little confused by the question. Not sure how mutation rate links in to
>>apoptosis. Martyrdom would be a rough correlate to apoptosis i suppose
>>although the analogy between cell death for genes and person death for
>>memes is not a great one. Closer would just be death of an organism for
>>the kin selection advantages and death of a human and the memes he/she
>>carries for the advantage in propagating those memes. We have hashed
>>over martyrdom repeatedly on this list especially in the wake of the
>>September bombings.
>>
>>In terms of memes that alter other memes mutation rates I guess one
>>could
>>point to democracy and the scientific method. Both of these memes
>>survive because of their value as forces for generation and selection of
>>other memes. Genetic analogies would be all the genes that promote and
>>control recombination.
>>
>>Ray Recchia
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>>To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com>
>>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:38:48 +0100
>>Subject: Apoptosis
>>
>>>Hi all, a question !?
>>>
>>>
>>>Apoptosis, the death response of cells.
>>>Is there a parallel in neurobiology, i/e/, is the mutation rate of
>>>memes linked
>>>to the death of other memes !?
>>>
>>>Anyone !?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Kenneth
>>>
>>
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>>
>--
>John S Wilkins
>Head, Communication Services
>The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research
>Parkville, Victoria, Australia
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Feb 05 2002 - 03:48:12 GMT