Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA08432 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 2 Feb 2002 02:17:29 GMT Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:11:44 -0800 Message-Id: <200202020211.g122BiZ17511@mail16.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [66.156.194.7] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Perception, Memory, Knowledge, Imagination and Cognition Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
>Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:44:28 -0500
> memetics@mmu.ac.uk "Francesca S. Alcorn" <unicorn@greenepa.net> Re: Perception, Memory, Knowledge, Imagination and CognitionReply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>Joe said:
>
>
>> All of the other mental modalities have their source in
>>perception. Memory comes directly from perception, knowledge is the
>>subcless of former memories that have been narratively compressed or
>>abstractly represented, imagination is comprised of perceptions and
>>memories deconstructed and components of them recombined, and
>>cognition is the deconstruction and recombination of components of
>>perception and knowledge.
>> Memory is restricted to the reproduction to some degree of a
>>segment of past perception, complete with a spatiotemporal
>>perspective; thus memory is diachronic and positional. On the other
>>hand, knowledge of an informational datum would not entail that we
>>be capable of reproducing the experience of learning it; thus
>>knowledge may be considered synchronic and apositional. Imagination
>>and cognition extrapolate possibilities from the actualities grasped
>>in perception and retained in (for imagination) memory and (for
>>cognition) knowledge. However, imagination is restricted to a
>>generation of possible perceptions from particular spatiotemporal
>>perspectives and is diachronic and positional; cognition is
>>synchronic and apositional.
>
>Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but it seems to me that cognition
>has *some* spatial elements to it. I think more three-dimensionally
>and my husband is a linear thinker. I've always seen this as a
>left-brain/right-brain thing. Or maybe space is the best analogy
>that we can find to describe a connective pattern.
>
Some mathematicians are said to conceive of mathematical relations in spatiotemporal terms, but this bit of synesthesia is probably most common among theorists of multidimensional topology <g>.
>
>Dispensing with the spatiotemporal lends itself to the concept of
>abstraction. I had never thought of that before.
>
And narratization.
>
>> Although they are all to some degree autonomous with respect to
>>perception (knowledge and cognition more so than memory and
>>imagination, due to the fact that the former two have dispensed with
>>spatiotemporal context), they are all directly or ind!
>>irectly grounded in perception, and recurse to inform it.
>>Forgetting needs to be mentioned also. If we consider memory to be
>>an imprinted representation of presented experience, a perceptual
>>text, if you will, and subsequent experience to be continually
>>inscribing upon the same neural parchment, the minor details and
>>routine experiences would become obliterated first; thus broad
>>outlines and the unusual would be remembered longer. Finally, the
>>experiential, that is, spatiotemporal and object-perceptual context
>>in which the information was received would be destroyed, and thbat
>>which remains would no longer be memory, but knowledge. Cognition
>>deconstructs and recombines these nerratized and abstracted
>>remainders, as imagination deconstructs and recombines memory images
>>(of all percpetual media, not just visual) and perceptions.
>
>
>I have wondered about the process of memory decay. I could never
>reconcile it with Penrose (the canadian surgeon) who stimulated
>certain portions of a person's brain during neurosurgery and got them
>to reproduce quite mundane memories. I think he might have been the
>originator of "engram" and the concept of holistic memory, but don't
>hold me to that.
>
A mundane memory could also be the summation of many different experiences; if you have spent a hundred languid sunny days at a particular lake, you are more likely to remember the 'sunny day at the lake' type than any particular token, absent distingushing features.
>
>Are you suggesting that these "nerratized and abstracted remainders"
>might be somehow related to memes?
>
I think that those are indeed cortically encoded and stored latent memes, that become manifest when we pass them on.
>
>frankie
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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