Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA19561 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:36:13 GMT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020114201649.00a3e6d0@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:29:20 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Ray Recchia <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> Subject: Re: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception In-Reply-To: <200201150107.g0F178g22772@mail2.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 05:07 PM 1/14/2002 -0800, you wrote:
I don't think this C-meme, I-meme distinction is a good one. Person Alpha
learns how to ride a bicycle by watching someone else do it.
I-meme. Person Beta learns how to ride a bicycle by having someone
describe the motions necessary to accomplish the action. C-meme. They both
know how to ride a bicycle but you would call this two different
memes. Just to screw things up even further suppose Person Delta, without
seeing or reading any description of how to ride, just figures out that the
thing must be for riding and plays with it until she figures out how it
works. A- or Artefact derived meme right? Humans built the bicycle and you
can figure what to do with it just by playing with the thing. I think the
meme should be 'riding a bicycle' and not have different labels depending
on how one arrived at it. The distinction between the three modes of
transmission is an important one but I do not think it works for describing
the memes themselves.
Ray Recchia
>The concept of hammering as a means to modify a natural object is the
>L-meme (internal ideation); the actual hammering is the g-meme (external
>behavior). This one is ancient and predates humanity proper; animals are
>known to employ hammering (otters balance flat rocks on their bellies and
>smash shellfish against them to batter them open). Let's distinguish the
>primitive memes that may be communicated by demonstration, imitation and
>mimicry as I-memes (imitation memes). The construction of a tool
>(modifying a natural object so that it may be more efficiently employed to
>modify another object - such as knapping a handaxe) rather than an
>implement (modifying a natural object for a direct function, such as
>chimps stripping leaves from branches to use the whips to feed on termites
>in mounds) is a second-order conception that appears only in human
>history. Still, it may be considered a (more advanced) I-meme, because it
>may be transmitted by showing rather than necessitating a !
>telling or saying. The tool (or even the implement) itself is an
>artifact, yet it also embodies the meme for its purpose among those who
>are experientially exposed to its use, as, for them, it comes to stand for
>its use.
>What humans have that is different from all but possibly the higher apes
>and some cetaceans is the C-meme (communication meme); a meme that must be
>communicated by means of a telling or saying, that is, encoding in an
>arbitrary (that is, not instinctual, but created and variable - as in
>multiple language possibilities) commonly understood symbol system or
>language. Animals only have access to the I-meme; humans (and possibly
>the others I mentioned on a rudimentary level) may employ both the I-meme
>and the C-meme. Once secondary systems are developed to freeze the
>C-memes rather than have them dissolve in the flow of discourse (that is,
>glyphs and writing which stand for spoken or signed words), our
>civilization had the ability to exponentially advance.
>I beieve that the failure to make the fundamental distinction between
>I-memes and C-memes has been the cause of much strife and confusion in
>memetic circles.
> >
> >- Wade
> >
> >
> >===============================================================
> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
>
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>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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