Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA04739 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 30 Mar 2001 02:37:34 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:39:49 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The Demise of a Meme Message-ID: <3AC38F85.24523.606944@localhost> In-reply-to: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745D32@inchna.stir.ac.uk> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 29 Mar 2001, at 14:17, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> To me to be without dis-satisfaction is to not be human, and indeed is
> impossible, unless one choose to ignore social reality, which to my
> mind is the real goal of most meditative pratices- there's a good
> reason why monks, priests and nuns of all religions spend at least
> part of their time away from everyone else... so it's easier to forget
> that the world and it's problems.
>
> Enlightenment to me means trying to find effective ways of sovling
> those problems, not internalising them to the point where you don't
> care anymore, or can delude yourself that they don't exist (or that
> it's not your problem). Enlightenment in this sense is normally an
> unsatisfactory struggle throughout one's entire life as we reach
> realise our limitations and inadequacies, but the struggle is what
> it's all about, and sometimes, just on occasion through our collective
> efforts we achieve a small bit of progress.
>
Some benighted traditions attempt to pacify their acolytes by
teaching them that there is no "you" TO care.
>
> Vincent
>
> > ----------
> > From: Robin Faichney
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:40 am
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: The Demise of a Meme
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 06:13:33PM -0500, LJayson@aol.com wrote:
> > > In a message dated 3/28/2001 11:35:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > robin@reborntechnology.co.uk writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > By my understanding and experience, enlightenment can be
> > > > achieved
> > while
> > > > under the influence of psych*a*delics, but the state wears off
> > > > pretty quickly, like the drug, whereas if attained by the more
> > > > traditional, long-term means, it's more likely to stay.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In this context, what is meant by enlightenement?
> >
> > Total cessation of suffering.
> >
> > "Suffering" is the traditional translation of dukkha (Sanskrit).
> > Nowadays it's very often translated as "dissatisfaction", which is
> > less strong but more all-embracing.
> >
> > The concept of enlightenment has much wider implications than this,
> > but I believe this is about the most concise expression of it.
> >
> > --
> > Robin Faichney
> > Get your Meta-Information from http://www.ii01.org
> > (CAUTION: contains philosophy, may cause heads to spin)
> >
> > =============================================================== This
> > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
> > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
> > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
> > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Mar 30 2001 - 02:40:46 BST