Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA13645 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:01:12 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C90@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:00:38 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Thanks Ray,
I thought I followed what Joe was saying, and had no problem with it. It
was simply the tutor in me that prompted the comment. My first thought was
that he'd better not fill his PhD with sentences like that one.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Ray Recchia
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 4:25 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
>
> Joe wrote
>
> > < It is quite reasonable to assume that before the pharynx
> dropped
> >and allowed
> > > evolving humans to enunciate deep vowels such as "oh" and "ue",
> > > increasing our number of possible distinguishable phonemes
> > > beyond the number required for the phonemic principle of language
> > > to factorialize combinations into an open-ended polysyllabic
> > > language system (as part of the metamutation that hijacked the
> > > evolutionarily elaborated - through tool use - hand-eye coordination
> > > system for use byn the mouth-ear nexus), yet subsequent to our
> > > evolving the prerequisite self-consciousness to conceive of and
> > > execute ideal tool shapes such as the Acheulian hand axe, that
> > > our truncated sound system consisted largely verbal signs for the
> > > most common concrete particular classes, and that elaboration
> > > from that middle point in the dual directions of particularization and
> > > generalization happened subsequently.>
> > >
>
> Vincent wrote
>
> > Joe, you do realise this is one sentence don't you?
>
> I'll parse it. In my job I'm used to deciphering run on sentences.
>
> Joe believes that the mental capacity for enhanced symbol manipulation and
>
> tool use evolved prior to the time the physical capacity of our vocal
> chords increased Joe believes that this enhanced symbol manipulation is
> tied into 'self consciousness' . Joe thinks that our initial symbol
> manipulation used mid level categorizations like 'tree' and 'rock' and
> 'water'. By particularizations Joe would be referring to mental
> categorizations like pine tree and metamorphic rock. Joe is saying that
> although pine trees and leafy trees are different, we started with an
> ability to recognize them as being part of the same categories. On the
> other hand categories like 'tribe' and 'living organism' might have been
> too abstract for primitive man.
>
> There is clear evidence that animals are capable of some fairly abstract
> categorizations. Irene Maxine Pepperberg has worked with parrots for
> going on thirty years and has demonstrated that they can identify
> quantity.
> color, and texture. The big leap for humans, which animals have a far
> more
> limited capacity for, is to attach these categorizations to vocal or other
>
> symbols which can then be independently manipulated.
>
> I'm not the greatest writer in the world and certainly don't possess the
> capacity to spew out paragraph after paragraph in a rapid fashion as other
>
> posters on this list do, and let me it clear that I think Joe is very
> bright, and spent a lot of time thinking about cultural evolution and
> human
> consciousness. However, when I see a sentence like the one Joe wrote
> above
> I wonder if he really has a problem with run on sentences or whether as
> when he refers to other posters as 'nimrod' or 'idiot', Joe's purpose is
> less to communicate than to assert superiority.
>
>
> Raymond Recchia
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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