Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution

From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Feb 17 2001 - 18:00:53 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Chase: "Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution"

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    From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com>
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
    Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:00:53 -0500
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    >From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk>
    >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
    >Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:21:02 +0000
    >
    > > some blinking asshole said it wrong
    >
    >Yeah, that's true, but the 'why did it do so well' part is still
    >interesting. I think the fact that the selective world is changing very
    >fast is useful here, because some things survive despite the changes in
    >circumstances (for instance, 'snafu' is dying out with the generation
    >who used it, but 'play it again sam' isn't).
    >
    I'm trying to think of the last time I heard someone I know use the phrase
    "play it again Sam". I can't off the top of my head recall this, but as a
    caveat I don't get out much :-)

    Has anyone else heard this phrase used? Is it popular within the so-called
    "Generation X" entity? How prevalent is this phrase amogst various pockets
    of societies world wide? Any hard data on this?

    Maybe it was a matter of a non-apadtive change in the phrase from the
    original being propagated at the expense of accuracy. Why would fitness be
    necessarily involved or OTOH is fitness sufficient to cover "memetic"
    phenomena?
    >
    >It all comes down to how
    >effectively the thing (tune, idiom, whatever) taps into the generic
    >themes of a culture. More generic -> more flexibility of application /
    >less incompatibilities with resident memes (details) -> higher chance of
    >long term success.
    >
    >
    I could see how something previously compatible or even neutrally benign
    might become incompatible with a shift in the "memetic" landscape. The
    behavior of smoking tobacco in public places has shifted from "cool" or
    fashionable to downright disgusting or offensive in some circumstances (nice
    restaraunts), though I still find myself breathing in secondhand smoke in
    bars or clubs.

    Nonetheless, I think it a mistake to automatically shoehorn cultural
    phenomena in analogous references to biological terms such as fitness,
    heritability &c. BTW what's the story with "&c"? Why is "etc." preferred?
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