Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id IAA11488 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:12:42 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:40:14 +0530 (IST) From: Dr Able Lawrence <able@sgpgi.ac.in> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution In-Reply-To: <3A7E89B0.28777.2C98F6@localhost> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102061335080.14562-100000@sushrut.sgpgi.ac.in> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Although influence of choice in selection of memes is undisputable ,choice
preordained purpose is unacceptable in Darwinian evolution. To say that
creation of man (I used creation because bringing about something in a
planned fashion amunts to creation) was preordained with Big bang is
preposterous.
We must reiterate the basic preposition of evolution.
Any replicating system with variation and selection can bring about
evolution and rise in complexity. It is a process purely brought about by
chance. It is far different from us humans designing and creating a city
or a space station for example.
Look at research on artificial life.
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On 5 Feb 2001, at 13:11, Robin Faichney wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:46:45PM -0000, Vincent Campbell wrote: > >
> > Seeing free will or choice as the determinant of memes thus is not >
> > the full picture.
> >
> > I think it's worth noting, even if you don't agree, that some, such as
> > Blackmore, would suggest that it's memes that give (the illusion of)
> > free will.
> >
> OTOH, some of us would maintain that symbiont memes increase
> our range of choices, and therefore expand the options available to
> an actually obtaining free will, and that memetic evolution being
> any more robust than genetic evolution (and it must be, to
> supercede it) requires conscious choice and direction, both as to
> the memes engineered from existing memes, and as to the choice
> whether or not to accept or reject proferred memes, rather than the
> random mutation / natural selection scenario obtaining in genetics.
> The absurdity of that entire everyone's-a-memebot argument is
> forcefully brought home to us when we consider genetic
> engineering; by such logic it must be unsuccessful, for it is a
> manifestation of realized intention, which is impossible in the
> absence of free will. It could not, therefore, operate any more
> rapidly than evolution, and would in fact have to be just another
> roundabout kind of blind mutational process, foreordained since the
> instant of the Big Bang in a lockstep superdeterministic world. In
> fact, the entire reason why we would develop the self-awareness
> we apodictically possess would be unclear, since it would not be
> able to make a reproductively effective difference in such a world,
> and the chances of something so complex evolving in the absence
> of a use which responded positively to environmental pressures
> would have to be vanishingly small.
> > --
> > Robin Faichney
> > robin@reborntechnology.co.uk
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Able Lawrence MD
Senior Resident
Clinical Immunology
SGPGIMS, Lucknow
able@sgpgi.ac.in
Ph +91 98390 70247
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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