Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA07621 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:47:38 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C32@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:46:45 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
< You have a point. It is not just the women who make choices,
but men
> as well which explains why the womenfolk in a family become progressively
> more beautiful with passing generations of prosperity!
>
> But that does not negate my point. Here the choice of the female is
> influenced by memes and aesthetics. Here the prevalent choice for a
> suitable mate can change from time to time. the mate selection is
> influenced by memes and the survival of the meme is determined by choice
> but the survival of an organism or a genetic trait is determined by nature
> which is indifferent.
> Choice gets into the grand theatre of evolution only after the entry of
> memes.>
>
I wouldn't dispute the idea that a difference between culture and
nature is the notion of "choice" (although I suspect philosophically this is
actually quite a complex concept), but choice isn't everything. Lots of
people follow all sorts of trends, customs etc. without knowing why (what
for) or the origins of such customs, but just do so. A recent anecdotal
example comes from a politics teacher in the local school my wife works in
as a careers adviser. One of the kids asked the politics teacher where the
terms left wing and right wing came from, as they do seem arbitrary, and she
didn't know (neither did my wife who's first degree is in politics, and
neither did I). Part of the initial appeal of memetics is those cultural
trends that persist regardless of personal choice. Genes have nature, memes
have culture. Leaving aside the issue of whether or not religions are
memes, for the moment, it's quite clear that many (most?) people do not
choose their religion but adopt that of the family, community and culture
around them, so much so that people will claim to be born to a religion. In
some cultures, there is little choice but to accept a certain faith or else
to face exile from, or persecution within, that culture.
Seeing free will or choice as the determinant of memes thus is not
the full picture.
Vincent
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