Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA11320 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:52:11 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:19:19 +0530 (IST) From: Dr Able Lawrence <able@sgpgi.ac.in> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C32@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102061317000.14562-100000@sushrut.sgpgi.ac.in> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Choice is a matter of degree. In biological systems the offspring has no
choice about his genes. He succeeds or perishes in the mad rush for
survival. Of course choice does not mean necessarily
considered/wise/correct choice. It can as well be arbitrary. Just pure
fashion. Another meme dictating choice!
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> < You have a point. It is not just the women who make choices,
> but men
> > as well which explains why the womenfolk in a family become progressively
> > more beautiful with passing generations of prosperity!
> >
> > But that does not negate my point. Here the choice of the female is
> > influenced by memes and aesthetics. Here the prevalent choice for a
> > suitable mate can change from time to time. the mate selection is
> > influenced by memes and the survival of the meme is determined by choice
> > but the survival of an organism or a genetic trait is determined by nature
> > which is indifferent.
> > Choice gets into the grand theatre of evolution only after the entry of
> > memes.>
> >
> I wouldn't dispute the idea that a difference between culture and
> nature is the notion of "choice" (although I suspect philosophically this is
> actually quite a complex concept), but choice isn't everything. Lots of
> people follow all sorts of trends, customs etc. without knowing why (what
> for) or the origins of such customs, but just do so. A recent anecdotal
> example comes from a politics teacher in the local school my wife works in
> as a careers adviser. One of the kids asked the politics teacher where the
> terms left wing and right wing came from, as they do seem arbitrary, and she
> didn't know (neither did my wife who's first degree is in politics, and
> neither did I). Part of the initial appeal of memetics is those cultural
> trends that persist regardless of personal choice. Genes have nature, memes
> have culture. Leaving aside the issue of whether or not religions are
> memes, for the moment, it's quite clear that many (most?) people do not
> choose their religion but adopt that of the family, community and culture
> around them, so much so that people will claim to be born to a religion. In
> some cultures, there is little choice but to accept a certain faith or else
> to face exile from, or persecution within, that culture.
>
> Seeing free will or choice as the determinant of memes thus is not
> the full picture.
>
> Vincent
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Able Lawrence MD
Senior Resident
Clinical Immunology
SGPGIMS, Lucknow
able@sgpgi.ac.in
Ph +91 98390 70247
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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