Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA14017 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:34:24 GMT From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Labels for memes Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:30:59 -0800 Message-ID: <JJEIIFOCALCJKOFDFAHBGEGKCDAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20010129142028.B2501@reborntechnology.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
No one doubts that one phase of the meme's existence is behavioral, just as
one phase of the gene's existence is phenotypic. But an animal is not a gene
and a behavior is not a meme.
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
Robin Faichney
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:20 AM
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Labels for memes
On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 10:40:21AM -0800, Richard Brodie wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 11:53:16PM -0800, Richard Brodie wrote:
> > > memes in the head (sometimes called L-memes
> > If, as it appears, the word "meme" must be muddied to include
replicators
> > other than mental information, and distinctions must be drawn (as they
> > should be) among different kinds of cultural replicators, perhaps
"D-meme"
> > would be a better label for mental replicators, since Dawkins first
> > published that definition for meme in The Extended Phenotype and Dennett
> > elaborated on it beautifully in Darwin's Dangerous Idea.
>
> Hi Richard. I think I told you before, but you may have forgotten,
> in Consciousness Explained Dennett says explicitly that one phase of
> the meme's existence is external to the mind/brain, in behaviour.
> Of course, Dawkins was amiguous about this in The Selfish Gene, as
> well. I'd say these waters _are_ muddy, already!
>
> Yes, they both clarified their earlier thoughts in later works. Remember
> this is solely an issue of the definition of one word, not an argument
over
> the memetics model. In any case, it seems fitting to name things after the
> people who invented them.
I don't have time to reread Darwin's Dangerous Idea just now, so would
you mind citing where Dennett retracts his earlier view that one phase
of the meme's existence is behavioural?
-- Robin Faichney robin@reborntechnology.co.uk=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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