Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA26743 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:23:12 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:19:13 +0000 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: this list Message-ID: <20010124191913.A706@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <203F0199CBACD211BCC100508B91BC471056C9@CSGSERVER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <203F0199CBACD211BCC100508B91BC471056C9@CSGSERVER>; from diane.benscoter@csgpro.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:43:44AM -0800 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:43:44AM -0800, Diane Benscoter wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I've been reading the discussion list for several weeks now. I'm very
> interested in the topic of memetics and appreciate the thinking and
> knowledge base that goes into the discussion. What's up with the insulting
> tone that is so prevalent throughout? It really gets old fast. Does anyone
> else feel this way? It's almost not worth it to me to stay subscribed.
> Can't you show a little respect for each other and keep your insults to
> yourself? It is possible to disagree without spitting at each other.
I sympathise. I see myself as one of the "elder statesmen" around here,
but I'm guilty of it too.
What you have to realise is, this is absolutely par for the course, where
"the course" is email list and newsgroup debate. I first got internet
access in 1986, and I've been involved in such discussions, not
continuously, but certainly most of the time, since then. The best
"signal to noise ratio" is always in the most technical groups, where
there is little or no room for disagreement, because the answers can all
be found in one manual or another. There, people tend to be friendly and
helpful, and it's a joy to participate. Except, as does occassionally
happen, when a subject comes up that's entirely a matter of opinion.
The classic example is: what's the best text editor. Another: what's the
best operating system. Such debates tend to get heated very, very fast,
and sometimes get very nasty. The internet term for this is "religious
war", for obvious reasons.
In groups and lists where there are fewer easily settled issues, and so
more is up for debate, the situation is that much worse. I've taken part
in discussions on the philosophy of AI almost since I first used the net,
and believe me, they can get quite a bit worse than what you've seen here!
Though that might be just because they've been on the go so much longer,
and the participants have gotten to know each other better, and in some
cases hate each other worse, forming various factions and alliances over
that period. I think memetics, touching as it does on several deep
philosophical issues, has plenty of potential for that sort of thing,
but in terms of online discussion, at least, it has a long way to go.
Which might seem very pessimistic, but there you go, that's the way I'm
feeling right now. For me, memetics is almost entirely a philosophical
subject, with little scope for empirical work, but that in itself is a
highly contentious opinion, around here.
These are my views, based on my experience and understanding. Others have
analysed online discussions, focusing particularly on their typically
heated nature, but I've never gotten around to looking into their
findings. Such work has come up here very recently, and you might like
to take a look.
Anyway, I hope you stick around, and make the effort to see through all
the crap, because some good stuff definately does appear here from time
to time, and for me, at least, it's definately worth it. I'll look
forward to seeing your contributions in future. You might even try
acting as a peacemaker sometimes. We could often use one!
-- Robin Faichney robin@reborntechnology.co.uk=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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