Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA20264 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:30:29 GMT Message-Id: <200101161427.JAA13879@mail0.lig.bellsouth.net> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:33:30 -0600 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: DNA Culture .... Trivia? In-reply-to: <20010116133359.A437@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <200101160153.UAA03658@mail0.lig.bellsouth.net>; from joedees@bellsouth.net on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 07:59:02PM -0600 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Date sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:33:59 +0000
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: DNA Culture .... Trivia?
From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
Send reply to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 07:59:02PM -0600, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> > >
> > > Though I view memes as encoded both in brain states and in behaviours,
> > > I don't think I believe in what you call "memes in the head". I certainly
> > > don't believe that brain-encoded memes will ever be identified. The
> > > study of specific memes will always have to focus on behaviours and
> > > artefacts.
> > >
> > This is because every brain (hardware) is physically different...
>
> That's right. Dennett explains this very persuasively in Darwin's
> Dangerous Idea. As I'm sure you know. :-)
>
> > There are at least three camps; the G memers (memes only
> > BETWEEN minds, in the world), the L memers (memes only
> > WITHIN minds), and the camp to whicch I belong, the G + L
> > memers (the life cycle of a meme involves both endocognitive and
> > exocognitive stages). For members of the third camp, it is as
> > impossible to understand how a meme could get mutated or
> > selected between minds as it is to see how it could get replicated
> > within one, and all of these are required for memes to evolve.
>
> Not sure who you're talking to, here. The L/G terminology is due to Tim
> Rhodes, but I've been expounding what comes to the same view for years,
> and that particular point, that neural memes have no way to get from one
> brain to another, just as behavioural ones have no way of being stored
> between instances of the behaviour, is one I've used repeatedly.
>
> Now, how about accepting that the most elegant solution to the L/G
> dichotomy is to view memes as items of information that are differently
> _encoded_ in both brain states and behaviours?
>
I don't see a dichotomy, as I don't see L memes and G memes as
mutually contradictory, but rather as the complementary stages of
a meme's life cycle. The moment either disappears, the meme is
(eventually) doomed. If it lives inside one's mind but one forbears
to express it, it dies when the inexpressive carrier dies. If it is
expressed by that mind but never absorbed by others, it still dies
when the unconvincing carrier dies. It must go, as Mama's
squeezebox does (the Who), in..and out..and in..and out..etc.
> --
> Robin Faichney
> robin@reborntechnology.co.uk
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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