Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA08736 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:36:59 GMT Message-ID: <005801c054c4$7a7b5480$5ab35140@proftim> From: "Tim Rhodes" <proftim@speakeasy.org> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Re: religion/spirituality Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:39:24 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Tim:
Be careful, Derek. Isn't this like arguing that, "shouldn't AIDS have
evolved to become airborne if it really was a true 'virus'?" Seems like
you're overlooking the "evolution" part of memetics.
Derek:
But is that really a fair analogy? Pathogens can suddenly become
airborne, the best example is the evolution of airborne pneumonic plague
from the non-airborne bubonic variety, and also syphilis changed from a
surface contact skin disease to the genito-urinary route. AIDS has only
been in humans for some few decades, so it's a very young virus.
Judaism has been around for several millenia (and 2.5 millenia in its
modern form). Surely, if the viral model really applies to religions,
somewhere in that vast time span the requisite change would have taken
place?
Tim:
But a pathogen can only move from non-airborne to airborne if it's
structure and mechanisms for infection allow it to. This is why I used
the AIDS analogy -- the virus is far too fragile to adapt to airborne
distribution without a pretty major change in it's own internal
structure taking place first.
To carry the analogy, Judaism would also have had to undergo major
changes in it's internal structure in order to _be_able_ to adapt into a
form that allowed horizontal transmission. Most of those changes would
have come at the price of it's short term fecundity, so it isn't
surprising that they never took hold.
Look at it this way:
If we introduced a huge flock of peacocks into an environment with a
fast and agile land based predator, we might expect that over time the
males would lose the pretty plumage and lighten up to take to the air.
*But* if in the short term those cocks with shorter tail feathers mate
less than their rivals -- because they're less manly-looking to the
peahens with their smaller displays and all -- that adaptation won't
ever take place.
If fecundity must be sacrificed for a variation to take place, the odds
are small you'll ever see that variation take hold in the population.
-Tim
p.s. And, as Vincent pointed out, there is Islam; a variant of Judaism
adapted to horizontal transmission.
===================
Tim Rhodes
memes@sil2k.org
Eyes, Ears & Memes, SIL2K
Strategic Improv Laboratories 2000
www.sil2k.org
===================
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